Comments on: Examining the Richard Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince trades that didn’t happen http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Sat, 25 May 2013 11:50:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Dan Feldman http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-23532 Dan Feldman Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:40:33 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/#comment-23532 <p>Laser,</p> <p>1. If they re-sign him, that doesn't preclude them from trading him later. He's an asset. They have him now. It's not terribly irrational to hold that asset until you can maximize its value.</p> <p>2. Maybe the Pistons didn't have other options because their other players are unappealing, not because they were focused on Rip and Prince.</p> Laser,

1. If they re-sign him, that doesn’t preclude them from trading him later. He’s an asset. They have him now. It’s not terribly irrational to hold that asset until you can maximize its value.

2. Maybe the Pistons didn’t have other options because their other players are unappealing, not because they were focused on Rip and Prince.

]]> By: Dan Feldman http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-23531 Dan Feldman Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:38:30 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/#comment-23531 <p>1. I sort of think Daye started to appease Dumars. Similar scenario with Amir Johnson a couple years ago. Guys a coach wasn't high on all of a sudden became starters.</p> <p>2. One, small sample size. We'll see. But isn't it possible Monroe could have gotten expanded role with Prince playing? Are Monroe's touches coming at the expense of the ones Prince would have gotten or at the expense of somebody else's? Monroe also has 13 offensive rebounds in those two games. A lot of his shots still come from putbacks.</p> <p>4. Didn't you say keeping Prince will increase the logjam if Jerebko comes back this year?</p> 1. I sort of think Daye started to appease Dumars. Similar scenario with Amir Johnson a couple years ago. Guys a coach wasn’t high on all of a sudden became starters.

2. One, small sample size. We’ll see. But isn’t it possible Monroe could have gotten expanded role with Prince playing? Are Monroe’s touches coming at the expense of the ones Prince would have gotten or at the expense of somebody else’s? Monroe also has 13 offensive rebounds in those two games. A lot of his shots still come from putbacks.

4. Didn’t you say keeping Prince will increase the logjam if Jerebko comes back this year?

]]> By: Mike Payne http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-23525 Mike Payne Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:03:31 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/#comment-23525 1.  The reason Daye hasn't "earned" minutes is because he's played behind a sure-thing lock who has held that position for 7 years straight.  Kuester wanted to get him starter minutes at the start of the season, but because of Prince he was played out-of-position, he naturally lost those minutes since he couldn't hang at the 4.  I don't understand the argument of "earning" minutes given the context of the situation-- that Daye <em>did</em> earn minutes at the beginning of the season, and he <em>can't</em> earn further minutes behind Prince.  It's cute, idealistically, but this cliche doesn't hold any water.   2.  With Prince out of the equation the last game-and-a-half, Monroe has averaged 15 attempts per game, nine higher than his season average and six higher than his February average.  Without Prince as the team's number one option, Kuester will have to find other options, and Monroe is naturally going to get more attempts as a result.   3.  Radically, no.  But even a single loss would be valuable in terms of lottery standings.  If Daye finishes the season hot, awesome.  If he doesn't and we lose an extra game or two, awesome.   4.  What is Jerebko's natural position?  He's about as cross-positional as it comes, with the offense of a PF and the defense suited to guard SFs.  If he's at the 3 or the 4, he's not really out-of-position, so I don't understand this point.   "<em>And I know you’re smart enough to understand me quantifying the situation.</em>"   I understand what you're trying to do numerically, I'm LOLWUT'ing at the loose, arbitrary bases you're operating on. 1.  The reason Daye hasn’t “earned” minutes is because he’s played behind a sure-thing lock who has held that position for 7 years straight.  Kuester wanted to get him starter minutes at the start of the season, but because of Prince he was played out-of-position, he naturally lost those minutes since he couldn’t hang at the 4.  I don’t understand the argument of “earning” minutes given the context of the situation– that Daye did earn minutes at the beginning of the season, and he can’t earn further minutes behind Prince.  It’s cute, idealistically, but this cliche doesn’t hold any water.
 
2.  With Prince out of the equation the last game-and-a-half, Monroe has averaged 15 attempts per game, nine higher than his season average and six higher than his February average.  Without Prince as the team’s number one option, Kuester will have to find other options, and Monroe is naturally going to get more attempts as a result.
 
3.  Radically, no.  But even a single loss would be valuable in terms of lottery standings.  If Daye finishes the season hot, awesome.  If he doesn’t and we lose an extra game or two, awesome.
 
4.  What is Jerebko’s natural position?  He’s about as cross-positional as it comes, with the offense of a PF and the defense suited to guard SFs.  If he’s at the 3 or the 4, he’s not really out-of-position, so I don’t understand this point.
 
“And I know you’re smart enough to understand me quantifying the situation.”
 
I understand what you’re trying to do numerically, I’m LOLWUT’ing at the loose, arbitrary bases you’re operating on.

]]> By: Dan Feldman http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-23523 Dan Feldman Fri, 25 Feb 2011 21:46:06 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/#comment-23523 <p>Tim, I think there was a decent chance the Pistons would have had to buy out Butler as part of the trade. The Mavericks like what he brings to their locker room, and he's been working to be ready for the playoffs, even if there's only a slight chance.</p> Tim, I think there was a decent chance the Pistons would have had to buy out Butler as part of the trade. The Mavericks like what he brings to their locker room, and he’s been working to be ready for the playoffs, even if there’s only a slight chance.

]]> By: Dan Feldman http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-23522 Dan Feldman Fri, 25 Feb 2011 21:44:22 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/#comment-23522 <p>Mike,</p> <p>1. In the short term, Daye would benefit from the trade. But in the long-term, I think he's best served by earning minutes. He'll develop a toughness going through that process. I still believe Stuckey might be a different player today if the Pistons didn't trade Billups to give him the starting job.</p> <p>2. Love "Isolayshaun offense." That's fantastic. Pistons haven't run a ton of plays for Monroe in the time Prince doesn't have the ball, though. He still gets a lot of his points from putbacks and dumpoffs. Not sure they'd call Monroe's number much more with Prince out of the equation.</p> <p>3. That's a fair point, but I don't think Prince would radically affect the Pistons' final record one way or the other. Most of the team's record is already locked in with him on the team. Plus, a malcontent Prince might be worse than Daye the rest of the way.</p> <p>4. Jerebko playing out of position for a few meaningless games won't matter. The games only help Jerebko get back game shape.</p> <p>And I know you're smart enough to understand me quantifying the situation.</p> Mike,

1. In the short term, Daye would benefit from the trade. But in the long-term, I think he’s best served by earning minutes. He’ll develop a toughness going through that process. I still believe Stuckey might be a different player today if the Pistons didn’t trade Billups to give him the starting job.

2. Love “Isolayshaun offense.” That’s fantastic. Pistons haven’t run a ton of plays for Monroe in the time Prince doesn’t have the ball, though. He still gets a lot of his points from putbacks and dumpoffs. Not sure they’d call Monroe’s number much more with Prince out of the equation.

3. That’s a fair point, but I don’t think Prince would radically affect the Pistons’ final record one way or the other. Most of the team’s record is already locked in with him on the team. Plus, a malcontent Prince might be worse than Daye the rest of the way.

4. Jerebko playing out of position for a few meaningless games won’t matter. The games only help Jerebko get back game shape.

And I know you’re smart enough to understand me quantifying the situation.

]]> By: Dan Feldman http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-23519 Dan Feldman Fri, 25 Feb 2011 21:24:48 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/#comment-23519 <p>Daye will be a restricted free agent. The Pistons have leverage to keep him, and re-signing Prince doesn't mean the Pistons can't trade him later.</p> Daye will be a restricted free agent. The Pistons have leverage to keep him, and re-signing Prince doesn’t mean the Pistons can’t trade him later.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-23507 Laser Fri, 25 Feb 2011 17:31:36 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/#comment-23507 +1   great point. +1
 
great point.

]]> By: Tim http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-23505 Tim Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:34:16 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/#comment-23505 About your numbers. You kinda ignored the possibilities of resigning or sign-and-trading Butler. Those values would probably be almost as high as Prince's. Really, the main reason Prince is worth any more than Butler right now is because Butler is out for the season. Apart from that detail, they are pretty equal players. And since the Pistons aren't going anywhere this season anyway, there is virtually no reason not to go for the trade. About your numbers. You kinda ignored the possibilities of resigning or sign-and-trading Butler. Those values would probably be almost as high as Prince’s. Really, the main reason Prince is worth any more than Butler right now is because Butler is out for the season. Apart from that detail, they are pretty equal players. And since the Pistons aren’t going anywhere this season anyway, there is virtually no reason not to go for the trade.

]]> By: Deng’s the man for Bulls | gbbasketball.net http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-23496 Deng’s the man for Bulls | gbbasketball.net Fri, 25 Feb 2011 11:48:20 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/#comment-23496 [...] Turkish centre Omer Asik in a purported deal for Houston’s Courtney Lee. Detroit agreed the principles of a deal to send Rip Hamilton to Cleveland but he couldn’t agree a buyout with the Cavs. The Bulls [...] [...] Turkish centre Omer Asik in a purported deal for Houston’s Courtney Lee. Detroit agreed the principles of a deal to send Rip Hamilton to Cleveland but he couldn’t agree a buyout with the Cavs. The Bulls [...]

]]> By: jgk281 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/comment-page-1/#comment-23482 jgk281 Fri, 25 Feb 2011 07:16:31 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/02/examining-the-richard-hamilton-and-tayshaun-prince-trades-that-didnt-happen/#comment-23482 @MikePayne: "The Isolayshaun Offense" - So true! Great wordplay, man, props. :-) @MikePayne: “The Isolayshaun Offense” - So true! Great wordplay, man, props. :-)

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