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	<title>Comments on: Why Wins Produced undervalues both Ben Gordon&#8217;s past and upside</title>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/comment-page-1/#comment-18398</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 11:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Put Ben Gordon on the Bulls, and they&#039;d win like 5 more games per season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Put Ben Gordon on the Bulls, and they&#8217;d win like 5 more games per season.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Feldman</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/comment-page-1/#comment-18321</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Feldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Matt,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks for pointing out the bar colors. I correct that in the post.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think we mostly agree on Gordon. He&#039;s not going to be a good defender, but he&#039;s not so bad that he&#039;s unhidable.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t expect his shot selection to improve, either. But a coach who could help him is on the market (Larry Brown). I don&#039;t expect the Pistons to hire him, but if they have interest, they should avoid trading Gordon until that plays out.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Gordon doesn&#039;t fit with this team, but that doesn&#039;t mean he isn&#039;t good enough to be the top scorer on a good team - as long as the right pieces are around him.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Maybe it&#039;s not possible to change what surrounds Gordon. If that&#039;s the case, the Pistons should move on without Gordon.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But I think he fits with Daye/Monroe/Jerebko, and I don&#039;t want to reach the point where the Pistons have those three thriving and the missing piece is someone like Ben Gordon, whom the Pistons dumped because he didn&#039;t fit with Richard Hamilton, Charlie Villanueva and Rodney Stuckey.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing out the bar colors. I correct that in the post.</p>
<p>I think we mostly agree on Gordon. He&#8217;s not going to be a good defender, but he&#8217;s not so bad that he&#8217;s unhidable.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t expect his shot selection to improve, either. But a coach who could help him is on the market (Larry Brown). I don&#8217;t expect the Pistons to hire him, but if they have interest, they should avoid trading Gordon until that plays out.</p>
<p>Gordon doesn&#8217;t fit with this team, but that doesn&#8217;t mean he isn&#8217;t good enough to be the top scorer on a good team &#8211; as long as the right pieces are around him.</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s not possible to change what surrounds Gordon. If that&#8217;s the case, the Pistons should move on without Gordon.</p>
<p>But I think he fits with Daye/Monroe/Jerebko, and I don&#8217;t want to reach the point where the Pistons have those three thriving and the missing piece is someone like Ben Gordon, whom the Pistons dumped because he didn&#8217;t fit with Richard Hamilton, Charlie Villanueva and Rodney Stuckey.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Feldman</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/comment-page-1/#comment-18319</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Feldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 20:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/#comment-18319</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;PCB, I think it&#039;s more likely that means Stuckey isn&#039;t part of the future plans.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Gordon also has a long wingspan. He plays bigger than his size. In his career, his turnover percentage has actually been relatively low, considering how much the ball is in his hands.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PCB, I think it&#8217;s more likely that means Stuckey isn&#8217;t part of the future plans.</p>
<p>Gordon also has a long wingspan. He plays bigger than his size. In his career, his turnover percentage has actually been relatively low, considering how much the ball is in his hands.</p>
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		<title>By: Horse Racing System Smarter Bet Pro v2.0 &#8211; Wins Every Month Can&#8217;t Lose :: The Betting Sky</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/comment-page-1/#comment-18304</link>
		<dc:creator>Horse Racing System Smarter Bet Pro v2.0 &#8211; Wins Every Month Can&#8217;t Lose :: The Betting Sky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/#comment-18304</guid>
		<description>[...] Why Wins Produced undervalues both Ben Gordon&#039;s past and upside &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why Wins Produced undervalues both Ben Gordon&#039;s past and upside &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matt McHale</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/comment-page-1/#comment-18303</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt McHale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/#comment-18303</guid>
		<description>Dan,

First, don&#039;t the red bars, not the black, represent BG&#039;s Chicago years?
Second, I don&#039;t suppose you did a similar study on the effect of BG on the Bulls&#039; Defensive Rating? I can tell you this. If you check Basketball-Reference, BG has had a higher D-Rating than O-Rating in five of his seven seasons (and one year it was &quot;flat&quot; at 112/112). Unfortunately, he is a liability on D and a team must game plan how to protect him on that end of the court.

Third:

&quot;If Gordon had a coach who demanded he take better shots, I think he’d get better.&quot;

Scott Skiles tried. He tried. BG is who he is at this point. I&#039;m not sure a different coach could re-train him. It would take someone of the level of Gregg Popovich or Phil Jackson...and even they haven&#039;t been able to fix every problem child (see Jackson, Stephen and Rider, Isaiah.

BG needs to be The Man on offense. He needs the majority of the shots. Shooting the ball is his business, and, when business is good, there aren&#039;t many better. But he needs plenty of shots to work into a rhythm. Can that happen on this Pistons team full of shooters. No way. Not consistently.

Dumars needs to trade somebody, but, as you&#039;re finding, the market isn&#039;t great for overpaid, offensive-minded players (sorry, Rip). Teams need to be structured around two or three primary scorers and then a bunch of do-it-all role players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>First, don&#8217;t the red bars, not the black, represent BG&#8217;s Chicago years?<br />
Second, I don&#8217;t suppose you did a similar study on the effect of BG on the Bulls&#8217; Defensive Rating? I can tell you this. If you check Basketball-Reference, BG has had a higher D-Rating than O-Rating in five of his seven seasons (and one year it was &#8220;flat&#8221; at 112/112). Unfortunately, he is a liability on D and a team must game plan how to protect him on that end of the court.</p>
<p>Third:</p>
<p>&#8220;If Gordon had a coach who demanded he take better shots, I think he’d get better.&#8221;</p>
<p>Scott Skiles tried. He tried. BG is who he is at this point. I&#8217;m not sure a different coach could re-train him. It would take someone of the level of Gregg Popovich or Phil Jackson&#8230;and even they haven&#8217;t been able to fix every problem child (see Jackson, Stephen and Rider, Isaiah.</p>
<p>BG needs to be The Man on offense. He needs the majority of the shots. Shooting the ball is his business, and, when business is good, there aren&#8217;t many better. But he needs plenty of shots to work into a rhythm. Can that happen on this Pistons team full of shooters. No way. Not consistently.</p>
<p>Dumars needs to trade somebody, but, as you&#8217;re finding, the market isn&#8217;t great for overpaid, offensive-minded players (sorry, Rip). Teams need to be structured around two or three primary scorers and then a bunch of do-it-all role players.</p>
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		<title>By: detroitpcb</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/comment-page-1/#comment-18232</link>
		<dc:creator>detroitpcb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 21:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/#comment-18232</guid>
		<description>three points:

if we keep Ben Gordon to play along with Monroe, JJ, Daye, &amp; Stuckey - that means Stuckey must move back to point guard.

I disagree with your conclusion that Gordon would be more effective if he was the main option. His ineffectiveness is due to his size - he has difficulty getting his shot against taller guards and is forced to either take high degree of difficulty shots or he diddles with the ball, employing a variety of small upfakes, and goes to the hole. He also is careless with the ball, is easily ripped, and makes terrible decisions when double teamed and forced to pass -  mainly because he cannot see over the defenders.

Finally, Austin Daye is a far better option going forward. Daye has already shown himself to be an unselfish player with excellent court vision. he is a great - not just good - but a great shooter with deep range who can get his shot against anyone. He has a good handle (witness that crossover in the last game). He is a good passer and i hope Q puts the ball in his hands next year and allows Daye to initiate the offense and not just shoot off ball reversal or penetration.

Dump Gordon now before his contract becomes as difficult to trade as Rip&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>three points:</p>
<p>if we keep Ben Gordon to play along with Monroe, JJ, Daye, &amp; Stuckey &#8211; that means Stuckey must move back to point guard.</p>
<p>I disagree with your conclusion that Gordon would be more effective if he was the main option. His ineffectiveness is due to his size &#8211; he has difficulty getting his shot against taller guards and is forced to either take high degree of difficulty shots or he diddles with the ball, employing a variety of small upfakes, and goes to the hole. He also is careless with the ball, is easily ripped, and makes terrible decisions when double teamed and forced to pass -  mainly because he cannot see over the defenders.</p>
<p>Finally, Austin Daye is a far better option going forward. Daye has already shown himself to be an unselfish player with excellent court vision. he is a great &#8211; not just good &#8211; but a great shooter with deep range who can get his shot against anyone. He has a good handle (witness that crossover in the last game). He is a good passer and i hope Q puts the ball in his hands next year and allows Daye to initiate the offense and not just shoot off ball reversal or penetration.</p>
<p>Dump Gordon now before his contract becomes as difficult to trade as Rip&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Laser</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/comment-page-1/#comment-18224</link>
		<dc:creator>Laser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>if we&#039;re looking at whether or not gordon should be traded, there are a lot of elements to consider. personally, i&#039;d never ever pay a shooting guard eight figures in the first place unless he was a sure fire all-star, and gordon certainly isn&#039;t that.
 
considering he&#039;s already under contract, it depends on your options. if you can&#039;t move rip, you gotta trade gordon, almost regardless of what you get back. i&#039;d be rid of him anyways, but if we&#039;re stuck with rip we can&#039;t pay these guys a total of what the highest paid player in the league earns. it&#039;s insane that we&#039;re in this position to begin with.
 
whatever we do going forward hinges heavily on what we&#039;re able to do with rip. but productive shooting guards are dime a dozen. any assets we can shift to positions that are more important in today&#039;s NBA, we&#039;d be wise to shift.
 
it&#039;s become plainly obvious that guys like gordon and villanueva aren&#039;t going to take this team anywhere. they may be along for the ride, and they may produce somewhat for us, but they&#039;re all paid like heavyweights and they aren&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if we&#8217;re looking at whether or not gordon should be traded, there are a lot of elements to consider. personally, i&#8217;d never ever pay a shooting guard eight figures in the first place unless he was a sure fire all-star, and gordon certainly isn&#8217;t that.<br />
 <br />
considering he&#8217;s already under contract, it depends on your options. if you can&#8217;t move rip, you gotta trade gordon, almost regardless of what you get back. i&#8217;d be rid of him anyways, but if we&#8217;re stuck with rip we can&#8217;t pay these guys a total of what the highest paid player in the league earns. it&#8217;s insane that we&#8217;re in this position to begin with.<br />
 <br />
whatever we do going forward hinges heavily on what we&#8217;re able to do with rip. but productive shooting guards are dime a dozen. any assets we can shift to positions that are more important in today&#8217;s NBA, we&#8217;d be wise to shift.<br />
 <br />
it&#8217;s become plainly obvious that guys like gordon and villanueva aren&#8217;t going to take this team anywhere. they may be along for the ride, and they may produce somewhat for us, but they&#8217;re all paid like heavyweights and they aren&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention Why Wins Produced undervalues both Ben Gordon’s past and upside – PistonPowered -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/why-wins-produced-undervalues-both-ben-gordons-past-and-upside/comment-page-1/#comment-18217</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention Why Wins Produced undervalues both Ben Gordon’s past and upside – PistonPowered -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Steve Kays and Patrick Hayes, PistonPowered Feed. PistonPowered Feed said: Why Wins Produced undervalues both Ben Gordon’s past and upside: Patrick wrote a very thoughtful and well-argued... http://bit.ly/efFV9X [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Steve Kays and Patrick Hayes, PistonPowered Feed. PistonPowered Feed said: Why Wins Produced undervalues both Ben Gordon’s past and upside: Patrick wrote a very thoughtful and well-argued&#8230; <a href="http://bit.ly/efFV9X" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/efFV9X</a> [...]</p>
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