Comments on: Chris Iott: Pistons nearly traded Richard Hamilton for Peja Stojakovic http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/chris-iott-pistons-nearly-traded-richard-hamilton-for-peja-stojakovic/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Fri, 24 May 2013 03:41:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Dan Feldman http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/chris-iott-pistons-nearly-traded-richard-hamilton-for-peja-stojakovic/comment-page-1/#comment-18110 Dan Feldman Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:00:47 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/chris-iott-pistons-nearly-traded-richard-hamilton-for-peja-stojakovic/#comment-18110 <p>Laser, let's just limit ourselves to mistakes Dumars has had sufficient time to fix. If in two years, Gordon and Villanueva are still struggling with the Pistons and Dumars is passing up opportunities to trade them, we'll talk about them.</p> <p> <ul> <li><span style="font-size: 8.33333px;">Drafting Rodney White - Dumars traded him after one season</span></li> <li><span style="font-size: 8.33333px;">Drafting Mateen Cleaves - Dumars traded him after one season</span></li> <li><span style="font-size: 8.33333px;">Drafting Darko Millicic - Dumars traded him after 2.5 seasons</span></li> <li><span style="font-size: 8.33333px;">Signing Nazr Mohammed - Dumars traded him after 1.5 seasons</span></li> <li><span style="font-size: 8.33333px;">Hiring Michael Curry - Dumars fired him after one season</span></li> <li><span style="font-size: 8.33333px;">Trading for Allen Iverson - Dumars let him walk after one season</span></li> </ul> </p> <p>That hardly seems like a guy who's not willing to swallow his pride and cut his losses.</p> Laser, let’s just limit ourselves to mistakes Dumars has had sufficient time to fix. If in two years, Gordon and Villanueva are still struggling with the Pistons and Dumars is passing up opportunities to trade them, we’ll talk about them.

  • Drafting Rodney White – Dumars traded him after one season
  • Drafting Mateen Cleaves – Dumars traded him after one season
  • Drafting Darko Millicic – Dumars traded him after 2.5 seasons
  • Signing Nazr Mohammed - Dumars traded him after 1.5 seasons
  • Hiring Michael Curry - Dumars fired him after one season
  • Trading for Allen Iverson - Dumars let him walk after one season

That hardly seems like a guy who’s not willing to swallow his pride and cut his losses.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/chris-iott-pistons-nearly-traded-richard-hamilton-for-peja-stojakovic/comment-page-1/#comment-18089 Laser Tue, 25 Jan 2011 03:29:11 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/chris-iott-pistons-nearly-traded-richard-hamilton-for-peja-stojakovic/#comment-18089 i don't think everyone sees him as stubborn and smug, but there's a good portion of the fanbase that recognizes this. i didn't mean to imply that the whole fanbase feels that way. heck, there's probably a much larger portion of the fanbase that would spend their lives being dumars apologists no matter how bad a job he continued to do.   i'm unconvinced he's flexible enough to swallow any pride at all. he stuck with a stuckey-rip-gordon guard core far past when it became apparent that it was a lost cause (and i don't know that any sensible person would ever have thought those guys had a good chance of thriving together). he has consistently failed to maximize the trade values of various young players: not too long ago, amir johnson was a hot commodity, and we gave him away for a sliver of cap space; i don't know how much value afflalo ever had, but i think most pistons fans would rather have him around for almost nothing than give him away for literally nothing and then go out and pay ben gordon 58 million bucks; he managed to turn our floor leader and best player into cap space to not only squander but actually saddle the team with burdensome contracts; tayshaun probably has plenty of value right about now and may well be one of the most valuable potential trade pieces on the market right now... so let's see what he does there.   if we can unload rip, we'll never know what dumars's level of stubbornness would be like. we can comfortably let tayshaun expire and go shopping in free agency. but if we can't trade rip, it's going to be very interesting how things shake out. will he keep this squad intact just to say we made the playoffs? or will he actually take steps that acknowledge his recent missteps? time will tell. i don’t think everyone sees him as stubborn and smug, but there’s a good portion of the fanbase that recognizes this. i didn’t mean to imply that the whole fanbase feels that way. heck, there’s probably a much larger portion of the fanbase that would spend their lives being dumars apologists no matter how bad a job he continued to do.
 
i’m unconvinced he’s flexible enough to swallow any pride at all. he stuck with a stuckey-rip-gordon guard core far past when it became apparent that it was a lost cause (and i don’t know that any sensible person would ever have thought those guys had a good chance of thriving together). he has consistently failed to maximize the trade values of various young players: not too long ago, amir johnson was a hot commodity, and we gave him away for a sliver of cap space; i don’t know how much value afflalo ever had, but i think most pistons fans would rather have him around for almost nothing than give him away for literally nothing and then go out and pay ben gordon 58 million bucks; he managed to turn our floor leader and best player into cap space to not only squander but actually saddle the team with burdensome contracts; tayshaun probably has plenty of value right about now and may well be one of the most valuable potential trade pieces on the market right now… so let’s see what he does there.
 
if we can unload rip, we’ll never know what dumars’s level of stubbornness would be like. we can comfortably let tayshaun expire and go shopping in free agency. but if we can’t trade rip, it’s going to be very interesting how things shake out. will he keep this squad intact just to say we made the playoffs? or will he actually take steps that acknowledge his recent missteps? time will tell.

]]> By: Dan Feldman http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/chris-iott-pistons-nearly-traded-richard-hamilton-for-peja-stojakovic/comment-page-1/#comment-18074 Dan Feldman Tue, 25 Jan 2011 00:05:35 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/chris-iott-pistons-nearly-traded-richard-hamilton-for-peja-stojakovic/#comment-18074 <p>Laser, speak for yourself. I don't think the fanbase as a whole consider Dumars "a smug, stubborn jackass." I think Dumars' history show's :he's smart and flexible enough to swallow his pride and make some substantial moves." He doesn't always make the best move, but that's never been because he wasn't willing to take a chance or trade someone just because he acquired him in the first place.</p> Laser, speak for yourself. I don’t think the fanbase as a whole consider Dumars “a smug, stubborn jackass.” I think Dumars’ history show’s :he’s smart and flexible enough to swallow his pride and make some substantial moves.” He doesn’t always make the best move, but that’s never been because he wasn’t willing to take a chance or trade someone just because he acquired him in the first place.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/chris-iott-pistons-nearly-traded-richard-hamilton-for-peja-stojakovic/comment-page-1/#comment-18070 Laser Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:04:13 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/chris-iott-pistons-nearly-traded-richard-hamilton-for-peja-stojakovic/#comment-18070 yeah this didn't make too much sense the first time i read it. if the talks got that "serious" you have to wonder why the third team went unnamed.   it looks like rip's not going anywhere. this is a disaster. i suppose one of my bigger fears is this: joe recognizes the team is playing better and the fanbase is less restless than it's been lately. he makes no trade deadline moves, instead hoping to making the playoffs and displaying progress (however modest). then he attempts to trade rip in the offseason, and if that doesn't work (and it probably won't) we wait some more. this is a probable scenario, since joe dumars somehow has no expiration date whatsoever with this franchise for some reason. he's got more job security than a damn supreme court justice. so he'll stick around and bide his time and be stubborn and smug, rather than adapt to the situation and change course.   a smarter man would acknowledge that his first effort at rebuilding was a failure on absolutely every conceivable level and change course. frankly, i think we've seen enough of a stuckey/gordon backcourt to say with a good amount of certainty that the combination is nothing special. i mean, you'd probably guess that they'd be better than they turned out to be, but we've seen them in action. neither is anything to write home about, and it turns out they don't really compliment each other.   the problem is that this team has JUST enough to not be an embarrassment going forward. in reality, guys like stuckey, daye, gordon, charlie... they aren't much to get excited about, separately or collectively. with the current rotation, this is probably a playoff team in the east. thing is, that's no accomplishment whatsoever.   if joe is smart and flexible enough to swallow his pride and make some substantial moves, i think it would save a lot of face with a cynical fanbase that sees him as a smug, stubborn jackass. stuckey, gordon, charlie... these guys aren't going to take you anywhere. nice complementary pieces maybe, but if you can get rid of them and give yourself another stab at free agency, i think you gotta do it.   rip would give you the same kind of production you've been getting out of stuckey and gordon lately anyways. if the other SGs are desirable, get them out of here already. there's no reason to have rip hamilton out of any NBA rotation. i don't care if he hasn't been the same lately. you won't convince me it's an issue of his declining game until i see at least a small sample size of him playing starter's minutes with a point guard (bynum or t-mac) as a primary or secondary scoring option. yeah this didn’t make too much sense the first time i read it. if the talks got that “serious” you have to wonder why the third team went unnamed.
 
it looks like rip’s not going anywhere. this is a disaster. i suppose one of my bigger fears is this: joe recognizes the team is playing better and the fanbase is less restless than it’s been lately. he makes no trade deadline moves, instead hoping to making the playoffs and displaying progress (however modest). then he attempts to trade rip in the offseason, and if that doesn’t work (and it probably won’t) we wait some more. this is a probable scenario, since joe dumars somehow has no expiration date whatsoever with this franchise for some reason. he’s got more job security than a damn supreme court justice. so he’ll stick around and bide his time and be stubborn and smug, rather than adapt to the situation and change course.
 
a smarter man would acknowledge that his first effort at rebuilding was a failure on absolutely every conceivable level and change course. frankly, i think we’ve seen enough of a stuckey/gordon backcourt to say with a good amount of certainty that the combination is nothing special. i mean, you’d probably guess that they’d be better than they turned out to be, but we’ve seen them in action. neither is anything to write home about, and it turns out they don’t really compliment each other.
 
the problem is that this team has JUST enough to not be an embarrassment going forward. in reality, guys like stuckey, daye, gordon, charlie… they aren’t much to get excited about, separately or collectively. with the current rotation, this is probably a playoff team in the east. thing is, that’s no accomplishment whatsoever.
 
if joe is smart and flexible enough to swallow his pride and make some substantial moves, i think it would save a lot of face with a cynical fanbase that sees him as a smug, stubborn jackass. stuckey, gordon, charlie… these guys aren’t going to take you anywhere. nice complementary pieces maybe, but if you can get rid of them and give yourself another stab at free agency, i think you gotta do it.
 
rip would give you the same kind of production you’ve been getting out of stuckey and gordon lately anyways. if the other SGs are desirable, get them out of here already. there’s no reason to have rip hamilton out of any NBA rotation. i don’t care if he hasn’t been the same lately. you won’t convince me it’s an issue of his declining game until i see at least a small sample size of him playing starter’s minutes with a point guard (bynum or t-mac) as a primary or secondary scoring option.

]]> By: Patrick Hayes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/chris-iott-pistons-nearly-traded-richard-hamilton-for-peja-stojakovic/comment-page-1/#comment-18067 Patrick Hayes Mon, 24 Jan 2011 20:26:31 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2011/01/chris-iott-pistons-nearly-traded-richard-hamilton-for-peja-stojakovic/#comment-18067 I just don't see any kind of scenario where this would've worked. Basically, a third team would've had to take Rip and, in exchange, most likely give New Orleans either a large expiring contract or a few young players. No way the Hornets would take a player under contract long-term making in the range of what Rip/Peja do per season. I just don’t see any kind of scenario where this would’ve worked. Basically, a third team would’ve had to take Rip and, in exchange, most likely give New Orleans either a large expiring contract or a few young players. No way the Hornets would take a player under contract long-term making in the range of what Rip/Peja do per season.

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