Comments on: Tracy McGrady could save the Pistons season http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/12/tracy-mcgrady-could-save-the-pistons-season/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Wed, 22 May 2013 11:47:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/12/tracy-mcgrady-could-save-the-pistons-season/comment-page-1/#comment-14214 Laser Thu, 16 Dec 2010 07:06:35 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3998#comment-14214 eh. i actually like monroe and big ben up front with charlie off the bench. and i can't imagine moving tayshaun to the bench for any reason ever. love to see t-mac starting. love to see a lot of things, like a trade that frees up room for daye to play. wouldn't mind bynum getting some time too, but not in a spotty less-than-backup PG role. eh. i actually like monroe and big ben up front with charlie off the bench. and i can’t imagine moving tayshaun to the bench for any reason ever. love to see t-mac starting. love to see a lot of things, like a trade that frees up room for daye to play. wouldn’t mind bynum getting some time too, but not in a spotty less-than-backup PG role.

]]> By: Jason http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/12/tracy-mcgrady-could-save-the-pistons-season/comment-page-1/#comment-14209 Jason Thu, 16 Dec 2010 04:49:06 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3998#comment-14209 Been saying it for weeks - Put Stuckey and Prince to the bench. Gordon Hamilton Mcgrady Villanueva Wallace   Run the offense through Mcgrady, and switch to normal positions on defense.     Been saying it for weeks -
Put Stuckey and Prince to the bench.
Gordon
Hamilton
Mcgrady
Villanueva
Wallace
 
Run the offense through Mcgrady, and switch to normal positions on defense.
 
 

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/12/tracy-mcgrady-could-save-the-pistons-season/comment-page-1/#comment-14172 Laser Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:27:43 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3998#comment-14172 @vic: if you think rip and t-mac could fetch z-bo, kevin love or josh smith, you need to be rushed to the hospital right now and get checked out because something is seriously wrong. don't drive yourself, it's too dangerous. call 911 immediately, or at least call a friend or a cab. this is a serious emergency. don't take it lightly! @vic: if you think rip and t-mac could fetch z-bo, kevin love or josh smith, you need to be rushed to the hospital right now and get checked out because something is seriously wrong. don’t drive yourself, it’s too dangerous. call 911 immediately, or at least call a friend or a cab. this is a serious emergency. don’t take it lightly!

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/12/tracy-mcgrady-could-save-the-pistons-season/comment-page-1/#comment-14171 Laser Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:23:20 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3998#comment-14171 @doctordave: i don't think anyone's going to take on a bad contract for t-mac. i think it's a one-time gamble type of situation. a mid-first rounder is worth the risk if you think, like chicago (or someone) might, t-mac can seriously help your chances this season, but i don't think it's realistic to expect anyone to continue to pay for that rental for years to come, in the form of an overpaid veteran on a multi-year deal. usually those contracts get moved when tied to a productive young player on his rookie contract (see: darren collison and james posey going from OKC to IND). it just makes more sense, because the combined contracts basically even out. i don't see anyone paying for a few months of t-mac by absorbing 2.5 years of rip at $12.650 per. you gotta be realistic here. hayes needs to be realistic too, but a draft pick or young player is the reasonable get for t-mac. @doctordave: i don’t think anyone’s going to take on a bad contract for t-mac. i think it’s a one-time gamble type of situation. a mid-first rounder is worth the risk if you think, like chicago (or someone) might, t-mac can seriously help your chances this season, but i don’t think it’s realistic to expect anyone to continue to pay for that rental for years to come, in the form of an overpaid veteran on a multi-year deal. usually those contracts get moved when tied to a productive young player on his rookie contract (see: darren collison and james posey going from OKC to IND). it just makes more sense, because the combined contracts basically even out. i don’t see anyone paying for a few months of t-mac by absorbing 2.5 years of rip at $12.650 per. you gotta be realistic here. hayes needs to be realistic too, but a draft pick or young player is the reasonable get for t-mac.

]]> By: vic http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/12/tracy-mcgrady-could-save-the-pistons-season/comment-page-1/#comment-14168 vic Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:52:58 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3998#comment-14168 I"d be sad to see TMac leave, because I know he's a very valuable player who can not only score but facilitate and defend... If he had to go, he'd have to go with Rip, for 2 bigs, or 1 big + one 1st round draft pick of a non-playoff team. If I'm Joe D I'm not giving 2 championship level players to a championship level team in return for a scrub with potential and a late teen/twenty something draft pick. At the very least, the other team would have to give up a quality big man that actually plays significant minutes. Zach Randolph, Kevin Love, Josh Smith... that type of guy. I”d be sad to see TMac leave, because I know he’s a very valuable player who can not only score but facilitate and defend…

If he had to go, he’d have to go with Rip, for 2 bigs, or 1 big + one 1st round draft pick of a non-playoff team.

If I’m Joe D I’m not giving 2 championship level players to a championship level team in return for a scrub with potential and a late teen/twenty something draft pick. At the very least, the other team would have to give up a quality big man that actually plays significant minutes.

Zach Randolph, Kevin Love, Josh Smith… that type of guy.

]]> By: DoctorDaveT.com http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/12/tracy-mcgrady-could-save-the-pistons-season/comment-page-1/#comment-14165 DoctorDaveT.com Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:19:11 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3998#comment-14165 Hey, PP, signing TMac to a "reasonable" two year deal is a near impossibility. Here's why: 1) he took this "only offer -- low ball contract - vet's minimum" only because no one thought he could play ever again 2) if he can play, he's worth WAY more than vet minimum 3) if he can't play, he's worthless at any price As of today, 12/15/2010, TMac CAN play and is making Chicago (and every other contender) looking foolish for passing him up. Do you think that will happen at the end of this contract? If TMac can play (and it sure looks like he can; I'll concede I was partly wrong when the trade happened; partly because we still have way too many wings on this flight), he won't want to be part of a rebuild, if he can play for a contender. (Imagine him back in Orlando. Or Chicago. Or Boston. Or LA. Or....) So a "reasonable resigning" just isn't going to happen. TMac's best value to JoeD is a trade to a contender. They'll want TMac; in order to get him, they have to take _____________ too. (The blank can be filled in with whatever boatanchor contract you can get rid of. Rip? BG?) In return, we either accumulate draft picks, young stars glued to the bench of contending teams, or cap space (although that's not my favorite option.) TMac & Rip for a young C/PF (or a true PG?) tied to the bench of a contender? Or even barely cracking it's rotation? What Detroit fan wouldn't want to do that? We're not looking for All-Stars; we're looking for <em>potential all-stars</em>. When you're rebuilding, that's how it is. Hey, PP,
signing TMac to a “reasonable” two year deal is a near impossibility. Here’s why:
1) he took this “only offer — low ball contract – vet’s minimum” only because no one thought he could play ever again
2) if he can play, he’s worth WAY more than vet minimum
3) if he can’t play, he’s worthless at any price
As of today, 12/15/2010, TMac CAN play and is making Chicago (and every other contender) looking foolish for passing him up. Do you think that will happen at the end of this contract?
If TMac can play (and it sure looks like he can; I’ll concede I was partly wrong when the trade happened; partly because we still have way too many wings on this flight), he won’t want to be part of a rebuild, if he can play for a contender. (Imagine him back in Orlando. Or Chicago. Or Boston. Or LA. Or….) So a “reasonable resigning” just isn’t going to happen.
TMac’s best value to JoeD is a trade to a contender. They’ll want TMac; in order to get him, they have to take _____________ too. (The blank can be filled in with whatever boatanchor contract you can get rid of. Rip? BG?) In return, we either accumulate draft picks, young stars glued to the bench of contending teams, or cap space (although that’s not my favorite option.)
TMac & Rip for a young C/PF (or a true PG?) tied to the bench of a contender? Or even barely cracking it’s rotation? What Detroit fan wouldn’t want to do that?
We’re not looking for All-Stars; we’re looking for potential all-stars. When you’re rebuilding, that’s how it is.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/12/tracy-mcgrady-could-save-the-pistons-season/comment-page-1/#comment-14164 Laser Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:14:21 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3998#comment-14164 there's a lot to question here:   1) ok let's assume we keep the guy and he stays healthy. how far can he take us? my guess is "not very." there are 6 teams in the east that figure to be a force for at least the next few years, so you have to ask yourself if it's reasonable that we can be highly competitive with t-mac. i doubt it. a safe guess puts us at a 6-7 seed if we're lucky, and that means a likely first-round exit. the alternative, a trade that nets us a young player or draft pick is more appealing to me, because i'd prefer sustainable improvement. there's a reason there are "buyers" and "sellers" at the deadline, and face it: we'd be smart to sell right now.   (one thing this season has illuminated for me is that there is a STARK contrast between the best interests of the fans and the best interests of the ownership. there may be some overlap, but their priorities don't align with ours. being "somewhat" relevant and making the playoffs for a few years would be a BOON for the organization at this time, but i think it's short-sighted.)   2) we don't have t-mac's bird rights. he can go wherever he wants. i wouldn't even hold it against him if he showed the pistons and dumars no loyalty whatsoever; he's in the twilight of his career, so he wants to win and wants one last big payday. we can't reasonably offer either. joe dumars seems to have forgotten that this is a BUSINESS. something tells me t-mac won't forget. this may be the most important of my points, even though it's #2. best to keep it professional and realistic and move the guy somewhere else.   3) there's the little matter of those wing players you suggest we trade. it's a little too big and vague of an "if" for me. who are these guys? rip? tayshaun? assuming we unload one of our wing players, nobody on the team is a better candidate than t-mac by a long shot. realistically, we've got to move at least two wings. jerebko's coming back, daye's out of the rotation. you get the idea. we need to trade some wings so badly it hurts, and it hasn't happened yet. i'll believe it when i see it, and i suspect t-mac will be involved. all i've heard the last few years are promises of moving perimeter assets for help up front, and t-mac is one of the few "assets" we have.   chicago's first rounder (or something) would be a pretty good get. rather than taking the chance that for some reason t-mac's heart will grow to the size of a house, like the grinch on christmas, and what figures to be his last big contract will amount to a modest two-year deal to come and lose games with the guys who gave him a shot when nobody else would. get real. he'll take money and/or a chance to win, and he'll probably demand a contract that lasts as long as he plans on playing (so... three minimum? maybe he'd ask for five, though i don't suppose he'll get it.) and nobody will blame him. nobodyy.   the incidentals: A) i bet jersey sales WAY more than took care of that guy's contract. B) the hawks are a good team, but they sure as hell weren't "good" last night, so i'd hesitate to say they beat a good team unless you add the caveat that it was an off night for them. i'll be the first to admit that the pistons could beat a lot of teams the way they played last night, but the hawks laid an egg. there’s a lot to question here:
 
1) ok let’s assume we keep the guy and he stays healthy. how far can he take us? my guess is “not very.” there are 6 teams in the east that figure to be a force for at least the next few years, so you have to ask yourself if it’s reasonable that we can be highly competitive with t-mac. i doubt it. a safe guess puts us at a 6-7 seed if we’re lucky, and that means a likely first-round exit. the alternative, a trade that nets us a young player or draft pick is more appealing to me, because i’d prefer sustainable improvement. there’s a reason there are “buyers” and “sellers” at the deadline, and face it: we’d be smart to sell right now.
 
(one thing this season has illuminated for me is that there is a STARK contrast between the best interests of the fans and the best interests of the ownership. there may be some overlap, but their priorities don’t align with ours. being “somewhat” relevant and making the playoffs for a few years would be a BOON for the organization at this time, but i think it’s short-sighted.)
 
2) we don’t have t-mac’s bird rights. he can go wherever he wants. i wouldn’t even hold it against him if he showed the pistons and dumars no loyalty whatsoever; he’s in the twilight of his career, so he wants to win and wants one last big payday. we can’t reasonably offer either. joe dumars seems to have forgotten that this is a BUSINESS. something tells me t-mac won’t forget. this may be the most important of my points, even though it’s #2. best to keep it professional and realistic and move the guy somewhere else.
 
3) there’s the little matter of those wing players you suggest we trade. it’s a little too big and vague of an “if” for me. who are these guys? rip? tayshaun? assuming we unload one of our wing players, nobody on the team is a better candidate than t-mac by a long shot. realistically, we’ve got to move at least two wings. jerebko’s coming back, daye’s out of the rotation. you get the idea. we need to trade some wings so badly it hurts, and it hasn’t happened yet. i’ll believe it when i see it, and i suspect t-mac will be involved. all i’ve heard the last few years are promises of moving perimeter assets for help up front, and t-mac is one of the few “assets” we have.
 
chicago’s first rounder (or something) would be a pretty good get. rather than taking the chance that for some reason t-mac’s heart will grow to the size of a house, like the grinch on christmas, and what figures to be his last big contract will amount to a modest two-year deal to come and lose games with the guys who gave him a shot when nobody else would. get real. he’ll take money and/or a chance to win, and he’ll probably demand a contract that lasts as long as he plans on playing (so… three minimum? maybe he’d ask for five, though i don’t suppose he’ll get it.) and nobody will blame him. nobodyy.
 
the incidentals: A) i bet jersey sales WAY more than took care of that guy’s contract. B) the hawks are a good team, but they sure as hell weren’t “good” last night, so i’d hesitate to say they beat a good team unless you add the caveat that it was an off night for them. i’ll be the first to admit that the pistons could beat a lot of teams the way they played last night, but the hawks laid an egg.

]]> By: detroitpcb http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/12/tracy-mcgrady-could-save-the-pistons-season/comment-page-1/#comment-14162 detroitpcb Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:25:49 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3998#comment-14162 T-Mac has earned more minutes with his play (though i question your statement that the pace is slightly faster - T-Mac will push the ball upcourt with a pass if someone is open but everything else he does on the court is very deliberate, but deliberate with purposeful intelligence). I too think the Pistons are a much better team with T-Mac on the floor. I suspect he will be traded before the deadline. But say the Pistons could trade Rip & Tay. A lineup of Stuckey, T-Mac, Austin Daye, Greg Monroe and Ben Wallace plus(Zach Randolph, Kevin Love, Josh Smith - fill in your favorite big man) would look pretty good and if T-Mac was willing to take reasonable money - i would give him a two year deal. Highly unlikely though. T-Mac has earned more minutes with his play (though i question your statement that the pace is slightly faster – T-Mac will push the ball upcourt with a pass if someone is open but everything else he does on the court is very deliberate, but deliberate with purposeful intelligence). I too think the Pistons are a much better team with T-Mac on the floor. I suspect he will be traded before the deadline. But say the Pistons could trade Rip & Tay. A lineup of Stuckey, T-Mac, Austin Daye, Greg Monroe and Ben Wallace plus(Zach Randolph, Kevin Love, Josh Smith – fill in your favorite big man) would look pretty good and if T-Mac was willing to take reasonable money – i would give him a two year deal. Highly unlikely though.

]]> By: Mike Payne http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/12/tracy-mcgrady-could-save-the-pistons-season/comment-page-1/#comment-14161 Mike Payne Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:23:55 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3998#comment-14161 Nice write-up Patrick, I'm fully in line with your rationale here.  I was thinking about something while watching last night's game-- can you imagine how stupid many of the league's GMs are feeling right now?  McGrady worked out for Chicago before he did for Detroit, and that team is in pretty bad need for a guard forward to spell Deng and potentially start at the 2.  The Tracy McGrady of December 15th could have been an excellent fit on so many levels for the Bulls, but they passed.  So did a bunch of other teams. Meanwhile, the Pistons sign dude for nothing (thanks to a league-subsidized vet minimum deal, then thanks to the jersey sales in the US and abroad which will pay for the rest), and look at him now.  I was thrilled when this signing happened this summer and had some pretty high hopes for what it could mean for Detroit's trade market, not so much it's on-court production.  Thus far, however, this is shaping up to be one of the better story lines of this season. Bravo, Joe D.  I hate you for so many more things than I care to count, but this was a really, really solid move. Nice write-up Patrick, I’m fully in line with your rationale here.  I was thinking about something while watching last night’s game– can you imagine how stupid many of the league’s GMs are feeling right now?  McGrady worked out for Chicago before he did for Detroit, and that team is in pretty bad need for a guard forward to spell Deng and potentially start at the 2.  The Tracy McGrady of December 15th could have been an excellent fit on so many levels for the Bulls, but they passed.  So did a bunch of other teams.
Meanwhile, the Pistons sign dude for nothing (thanks to a league-subsidized vet minimum deal, then thanks to the jersey sales in the US and abroad which will pay for the rest), and look at him now.  I was thrilled when this signing happened this summer and had some pretty high hopes for what it could mean for Detroit’s trade market, not so much it’s on-court production.  Thus far, however, this is shaping up to be one of the better story lines of this season.
Bravo, Joe D.  I hate you for so many more things than I care to count, but this was a really, really solid move.

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