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Let’s all recuperate with a look at Kevin Garnett’s ‘toughness’

It has been a long couple of weeks for the Pistons and Pistons fans. Players fighting with coaches. Players fighting with fans. Charlie V declaring war on Kevin Garnett via Twitter. Everyone just needs to relax.

So courtesy of reader gmehl, here’s a compilation of KG’s ‘toughest’ acts. Pistons fans will like the confrontations with Jason Maxiell and Antonio McDyess. My personal favorite, though, was when KG was still in Minnesota and Anthony Peeler gave him a forearm to the face while Garnett just stood there glaring. He did glare with a lot of intensity though.

And seriously, someone needs to make the Garnett-Villanueva boxing match happen. Based on the ‘punch’ Garnett threw at McDyess in this video, that would be highly entertaining.

51 Comments

  • Nov 4, 201012:14 pm
    by Sam

    Reply

    this is super biased…. what about the fights with shaq, dirk and TD?

  • Nov 4, 201012:23 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    Seriously Sam? Here’s the ‘fight’ with Tim Duncan:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pTiEkfQ6pk

    Garnett punches him in the back of the head from behind when Duncan is engaged in trying to break up other pushing matches.

    I can’t find video evidence of him fighting Shaq, and if you’re making the case that anyone fighting Dirk isn’t fighting a soft player, I’d be inclined to disagree with you.

  • Nov 4, 201012:42 pm
    by Cdog0o7

    Reply

    KG is not Tough.  He is a punk.
    Game 7, NBA Finals, 6’11″, center goes down in game 6, and playing center against a 1 legged Bynum, Garnett manages 3 rebounds the whole game.
     
    Enough said.  And one of these days KGs gonna get clocked.

  • [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Need4Sheed Detroit and Jason Zimmerman, Patrick Hayes. Patrick Hayes said: From @PistonPowered: Let’s all recuperate with a look at Kevin Garnett’s ‘toughness’ http://bit.ly/9yqO7m [...]

  • Nov 4, 201012:55 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    I didn’t post this to suggest KG’s not a great player, because he is. But there’s a dumb idea out there that because he yells a lot and gets in peoples faces, he’s tough and intense and should be feared.

    I’d love Garnett on my team. He’d help them win a lot of games. But it’s abundantly clear at this point in his career that, as Ben Wallace said a few years ago, KG very clearly picks his battles, picks the guys he’s going to play games with. And pretty reliably, they are harmless guys like Villanueva or Jose Calderon.

  • Nov 4, 201012:55 pm
    by Rodman4Life

    Reply

    Classic!  Garnett is a softy.  Used to like him until I found out what he was all about.  I’m glad Charlie called him out, expose that bully.  Trash talk is one thing, but Garnett is tasteless and inappropriate, some kind of mob mentality in him.  He would have been very quiet against the old Bad Boys.

  • Nov 4, 20101:39 pm
    by Kamron

    Reply

    What a load of (flowers). You could make a video of anyone who’s been in the league for a decade showing them walking away from confrontations (esp when they’re the better player and don’t want to get tossed), setting hard picks, getting beaten off of the dribble… whatever the (rainbow) that’s supposed to mean.
    If you think this video shows jack-(bunny rabbits), then you don’t know jack-(kittens) about basketball.

    I mean, I understand why you want to distract yourself from your classless (unicorn) of a winless basketball franchise, but next time try picking a project that doesn’t proclaim you to be a useless douchebag to the world. No matter how hard you try, you can never succeed in bringing the rest of the NBA as low as the ball-less Pistons. They can’t even beat New (I love Glee) Jersey.

    Editor’s note: Kamron used a lot of swear words in his comment, which we don’t condone at PistonPowered. So I’ve replaced those swear words with more appropriate words. I think you can still get his general point: he thinks Kevin Garnett is totally the greatest. Go Bah-Stan!

  • Nov 4, 20101:51 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    Haha. @Kamron, I didn’t put together the video my man. I don’t think it shows anything. I just think it’s funny.

    Love fans of Boston-area sports. So tightly wound, you guys are.

  • Nov 4, 20102:28 pm
    by Kamron

    Reply

    Not a Celts fan or a KG booster, actually kinda don’t like the Cs on general principles (altho Im always happy to see great players get at least one ring). If I had to pick Id say I like the Trailblazers and the Hornets, for hometown reasons. But mostly I just like basketball, and dislike folks who feel that they’re elevating themselves or their teams by putting other folks down. If you love the Pistons, go watch some old Bad Boys games or make a mix of Prince’s great D if you’ve got time to kill, hate is just petty and sad.
    Apologies for violating the profanity rules, didn’t realize.

  • Nov 4, 20102:45 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    “dislike folks who feel that they’re elevating themselves or their teams by putting other folks down.”

    I think that’s a tad bit of an overstatement. I certainly don’t think that posting it “elevated” the Pistons. And if anything, Villanueva still comes out of this looking like the soft one, since he ran to Twitter to complain about it. That’s not a good look, and I would think that most of the players in the league would agree with that sentiment.

    But yeah, this is the third time KG has had an incident with a Piston (as evidenced by the McDyess and Maxiell portions of that clip). It gets old, ya know?

  • Nov 4, 20102:49 pm
    by Randall

    Reply

    I’ve read several times, dating back to his Minnesota days, that Garnett has a rep for baiting smaller/lesser players and shirks from bigger guys. Of course you could cut together dozens of videos to make whatever point you want to make, but his reputation was not a creation out of whole cloth; he’s earned it. You don’t have to like it, but don’t pretend it doesn’t exist just because he plays for your team.

  • Nov 4, 20102:49 pm
    by pathetic

    Reply

    Kamron, couldn’t agree with you more.
    I loved the old Pistons, and I can’t believe that anybody that watched Isaiah or Salley or Lambier play could post such a bs video as this one.  Basketball is not a f-ing dinner party, feelings get hurt.  The players that matter deal with it, others tweet, and partisan bloggers post hater porn.  I miss journalists.

  • Nov 4, 20103:03 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @pathetic:

    “I miss journalists.”

    Cry me a river. Then go read a newspaper. Those still exist, and they love new readers.

    A couple things I can’t believe: Someone who allegedly watched “Isaiah or Salley or Lambier” would spell two of those three names wrong.

    Or post something as lame as “I miss journalists.” Your boys Isiah, Salley and Laimbeer hated journalists. They’d be so ashamed of your softness.

    As to what I think your main point was, that I posted this video to somehow suggest that Villanueva was right to go on Twitter to voice his complaints, you’re wrong and misinterpreting. But Villanueva certainly is another in a long line of KG targets that certainly aren’t among the toughest guys in the world. If you’re a fan of those Bad Boys teams, I think you’d agree that they certainly didn’t go after the Jose Calderons or Charlie Villanuevas of their eras. They went after the Larry Birds, Robert Parishes, Scottie Pippens, etc.

    To be clear, I’m totally fine with KG and his trash talking. I’m not offended or surprised by anything that goes on during a basketball game. But as Randall said, let’s not pretend that KG doesn’t have a reputation for picking battles. He does, and Villanueva is far from the first player around the league to suggest that concept.

  • Nov 4, 20103:28 pm
    by Daniel

    Reply

    I disagree with “Kamron”.  There aren’t any players that antagonize others both physically and verbally the way that Garnett does.  He just doesn’t have any bite to back up his bark.
    Here’s a player who was all bite and no bark… (Bruce Bowen FTW!!!).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kj6h8TF58U&feature=related

  • Nov 4, 20104:18 pm
    by Kamron

    Reply

    “But Villanueva certainly is another in a long line of KG targets that certainly aren’t among the toughest guys in the world. If you’re a fan of those Bad Boys teams, I think you’d agree that they certainly didn’t go after the Jose Calderons or Charlie Villanuevas of their eras. They went after the Larry Birds, Robert Parishes, Scottie Pippens, etc.”

    First, Bird and Pip were great, but they were SFs and neither was what you’d call a bruiser. Villanueava is bigger than both by a long shot. Villanueva is about the same size as KG, so lose the “pick on someone your own size” horsecrap. I don’t know why you think that Villenueava couldn’t take Bird or Pip in a fistfight, as opposed to a one-on-one basketball game. You seem confused.
    Second, if we’re going on the assumption that players’ reps are true, then Laimbeer was a dirty chickensh1t bully (and a flopper). And Im pretty sure someone could make a mix tape demonstrating that, with biased idiotic commentary such as “how about now, tough guy?” etc.
    And then some Nets fan can post it and avoid thinking about *their* crap team for a few minutes.

    “I think that’s a tad bit of an overstatement. I certainly don’t think that posting it “elevated” the Pistons.”

    Look at the title of your post again. ‘Let’s all feel better about our crap basketball team- at least they aren’t classless like those guys with winning records and rings’.

    “But as Randall said, let’s not pretend that KG doesn’t have a reputation for picking battles. He does, and Villanueva is far from the first player around the league to suggest that concept.”

    Charlie Villanueva suggested that KG picks on weaklings- like himself? wtf are you talking about now? CV’s point was that the trash-talking was over the line, he didn’t suggest that he himself was a marshmallow.
    But hey, you can keep thinking that, just like you can keep thinking that this post isn’t an exercise in ankle-biting.

    @Daniel- Bruce Bowen was a tough defender, but he was also totally dirty; stepping under jump shooters is pretty low. I’ll take a talker over a guy who puts other players at the risk of injury.

  • Nov 4, 20104:28 pm
    by What More Can I Say?

    Reply

    I think it’s a shame that you are taking time out to poke fiun at a Hall of Famer when you should be making a video about Villeneuva. The guy has a 6’11, 200 lb rookie startting in front of him on a 0-5 team and he is one of the highest paid players on your team.

    But I guess it’s OK because he is a little snitch (ponies) who tweets stuff that he says that was said on the court.  LOL!

    And you spend time picking apart the Hall of Famer instead of the thief! Lmao!

    Editor’s note: Once again, someone violated profanity rules, so comment has been slightly modified.

  • Nov 4, 20104:52 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @Kamron:

    Well played sir. I post a youtube video some dude used to take clips out of context, you take my comments out of context. You’re great.

    Let me respond:

    “First, Bird and Pip were great, but they were SFs and neither was what you’d call a bruiser.”

    It’s not about bruisers. It’s about the fact that those guys were star players. Garnett never, ever goes after star players. Unless you count when he punched Duncan in the back of the head when Duncan wasn’t looking. You don’t see KG out on the perimeter clapping in Chris Paul’s face, you see him doing it in Jose Calderon’s. I’m fine with it. I think it’s funny. But it’s phoney.

    “Look at the title of your post again. ‘Let’s all feel better about our crap basketball team- at least they aren’t classless like those guys with winning records and rings’.”

    That’s not the title of the post. What I meant by the title is, “hey, instead of having conversations about the entire team bickering, let’s watch a random youtube video someone made making fun of Kevin Garnett.” That’s it. Is the video fair? No. Is it somewhat amusing? Yeah.

    “Charlie Villanueva suggested that KG picks on weaklings- like himself? wtf are you talking about now?”

    Poor wording on my part. I meant that the incident with Villanueva highlighted what has long been a criticism of KG — he picks on soft players. I’m the one calling V soft, I wasn’t saying that V called himself soft.

    I don’t care that I struck a nerve with you, frankly. You don’t have to like the post. I’d venture a guess that this is the first time you’ve ever happened upon this blog, and I’d also guess that you probably won’t stop back. Both things are totally fine. I don’t see the point of getting worked up over one rather light-hearted post.

  • Nov 4, 20104:57 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @What More Can I Say?

    First, great screen name. Second, I didn’t make any videos. I linked to a youtube video. The video was created by someone who obviously isn’t a huge fan of KG’s antics. You’re not the first person on the thread who doesn’t seem to get that point. To you and to the others who have made that mistake: I DID NOT MAKE THE VIDEO.

    I linked to it because it’s semi-related to Villanueva/Pistons. There are Pistons featured in it. KG has had altercations with Pistons before. Ben Wallace has said KG “picks his battles”. It’s relevant by those standards.

    Is the video fair? Sure it’s not fair. Does it mean KG is not great? Absolutely it doesn’t mean that.

    But if anyone is going to talk about KG and pretend that this image of him doesn’t exist out there, doesn’t exist among at least some NBA players, you’re not being honest. I didn’t create the reputation.

  • Nov 4, 20105:08 pm
    by Glenn

    Reply

    “and dislike folks who feel that they’re elevating themselves or their teams by putting other folks down”
     
    So you dislike KG then?

  • Nov 4, 20105:33 pm
    by What More Can I Say?

    Reply

    @Patrick Hayes

    Sorry for the profanity…I’m of the mindset that a feamle dog is similiar to a Darn (remove the “arn” and replace with a “am”. Barely profanity.

    2nd apology…I did think you created the video. My bad.

    But seriously…I really don’t care about an image of him being a bully. That’s why America is so great…different people, different opinions. But it is disgusting to be talking about negative image of a hall of famer when a scrub like Charlie V. would rather tweet what he’d like to do instead of earning his salary and start on a team that is clearly awful. I DON’T CARE how many injuries Detroit has either…Austin Daye isn’t injured, he’s a small forward playing PF and he is starting in front of this scrub.

    Yet the headlines are “Did KG go out of bounds?” and is KG a bully and blah, blah, blah. Pathetic. Dude is a champion and Villnueva will NEVER be able to be in the same sentence with this guy after this blows over.

  • Nov 4, 20105:52 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @What More Can I Say:
    I appreciate your response.
    I agree with you — the coverage of this incident has been way over the top. Like I said in some other comments, I’ve personally always found what KG has done kind of funny. Love his intensity. Loved him clapping at Calderon. Loved ZaZa Pachulia getting back in his face. All of those things are great for the NBA.
    And I also think it was weak of Charlie V to Twitter about some trash talk on the court. If he had a problem or thought something was over the line, a man would’ve went into the Celtics locker room and calmly talked to KG about it after the game.
    KG is a great player. I think it’s stupid that this incident with Villanueva has given a lot of columnists license to bash Garnett. The real reason this is happening is Garnett has never been the most friendly dude with the media, and whenever a player like that messes up or even does something relatively minor like this, that player tends to get a ton of negative backlash. Media members are vindictive like that sometimes.
    But all of that being said, I do think it is fair to say that Garnett does pick his battles sometimes. He does tend to be more apt to get in the face of a lesser player or a soft player than a star. That doesn’t belittle his talents as a player, but I know that it is a perception of Garnett that exists, and Ben Wallace said as much two years ago in his comments. That ‘picking battles’ aspect of this whole thing is something that people are making up out of the blue. It has existed with Garnett for a long time.

  • Nov 4, 20106:03 pm
    by Kamron

    Reply

    “It’s not about bruisers. It’s about the fact that those guys were star players.”

    So you would be fine if KG picked fights with Steve Nash or Chris Paul, but if he picks a fight with some big backup center, he’s a *bully*? You keep using “star” and “soft” as if they were opposites. Who would win a fight between the starting PGs of the league and the backup PFs?
    I don’t know why you think it’d be Ok to pick fights with small superstars but not with big benchwarmers- that’s the exact opposite of what I want. I want the stars to be protected from guys who have less talent and want to hurt them or turn the game into a boxing match- or worse, get the thug and the star tossed for fighting, benefiting the thug’s team.

    “Poor wording on my part. I meant that the incident with Villanueva highlighted what has long been a criticism of KG — he picks on soft players. I’m the one calling V soft, I wasn’t saying that V called himself soft.”

    And, at 6’11″ 245lbs or so, are you so sure that CV is soft? Think you could take him, since he’s such a wuss? Again, picking on Chris Paul would make KG a man, but picking on a guy about twice the size of CP3 is soft. Whatever.

    “Well played sir. I post a youtube video some dude used to take clips out of context, you take my comments out of context. You’re great.”

    By all means, if I took something that you said out of context and twisted it to mean something you didn’t intend it to mean, point that out. I think I took your quotes in context, and your response suggests that Im right- you think picking on Deron Williams is manly, but picking on Tiny Gallon is weak and lame. But again, feel free to correct any misinterpretations.

    “That’s not the title of the post. What I meant by the title is, “hey, instead of having conversations about the entire team bickering, let’s watch a random youtube video someone made making fun of Kevin Garnett.” That’s it. Is the video fair? No. Is it somewhat amusing? Yeah.”

    I apologize for thinking you were trying to make a point. Seriously. I still think the video isn’t classy or funny though. And yeah, trying to distract yourself by putting down good players still strikes me as lame.

    “I don’t care that I struck a nerve with you, frankly. You don’t have to like the post. I’d venture a guess that this is the first time you’ve ever happened upon this blog, and I’d also guess that you probably won’t stop back. Both things are totally fine.”

    Guilty on both counts, probly. Single-team blogs are a little too much detail for me to want to follow.
    Upside though, I did watch this old video of Barkley punching Laimbeer in the eye for being a dick (and Isiah, who looks kind of silly trying to punch Mahorn but Ive got to admire his guts):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlHiPjzejSk

    @Glenn
    “So you dislike KG then?”

    Im not a big fan of trash talking, but it doesn’t bug me the way dirty play bugs me. I admire KGs energy, skill, and focus on team goals. But then, I dont see trash talking as trying to make oneself bigger by putting people down, I see it as trying to disrupt their mental game. Even the stuff said outside the arena- Im no fan of Phil Jackson, but he’s very good at needling other teams to mess with their heads. Not my favorite part of the game, but definitely part of the game.

  • Nov 4, 20106:11 pm
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    Just so Patrick doesn’t have to explain that he didn’t make the video again it was me that found it on youtube. I didn’t make it either but all i can say is that it was pretty damn funny. It is clear to see that Garnett is a winner…even if he is a classless one!

  • Nov 4, 20106:21 pm
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    @Patrick
    Thanks for posting the video my man. I am sure there were a lot of piston fans out there that got a good laugh out of it. I think the next thing to do would be to start a pool on who KG will go after next. I am thinking his old teammate Brian Scalabrine could be a good candidate but if i really had to choose then i would have to go with Earl Boykins :-)

  • Nov 4, 20106:21 pm
    by Adam Madison

    Reply

    The game is the game. If you’re weak you get preyed on. Why would you expect anything else?

    It makes no sense for Kevin Garnett to go after the strong when he can just team up with the strong and pick on the weak. Get what I’m saying?

    So if KG is being allowed to pick on your team’s weak then the question you should ask is where is your team’s strong?

    By the way, would any of the people name-calling Kevin Garnett have the gall to say it in his face?

    Who’s really the coward?

  • Nov 4, 20106:48 pm
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    I have no qualms taking up that offer and I will say it right to his face. After seeing the way he ran away from Antonio McDyess like a little girl i don’t think there is much to be afraid of. Anyways the point being made with this whole thing is not that Garnett isn’t a great player but rather one that would never think about stepping up to Ben Wallace or Jason Maxiell. Heck i am surprised he didn’t go after Austin Daye!

  • Nov 4, 20107:30 pm
    by Oats

    Reply

    @Kamron. I think the reputation is he doesn’t go after either the star player or the big tough bench big man. He doesn’t go after Tiny Gallon, but he sure as hell would go after Anthony Randolph (example chosen at random). He doesn’t go after star guys, because then the enforcers come running to help. He also doesn’t go after the toughs. He goes after the Jose Calderons and the Timofey Mozgovs and Charlie Villanuevas (those names are not chosen at random this time, they are all guys he has had interactions with). The guys, regardless of size, who have a reputation of being guys you can do that to with out fear of retaliation, either from that player or his team mates. That isn’t to say CV doesn’t have friends in the locker room, but he wouldn’t be afforded the same kind of protection a star like Chris Paul would. In fact, none of our players would cause a bench clearing like Phoenix had when Nash was checked into the scoring table. Do something to Deron Williams, and see how long it takes Millsap to get there. Then do something to Ronnie Price, and I bet you don’t get the same reaction. Small guys, soft guys, and Euros, those are his targets (and many of the Euros also have reputations as soft guys). At least that is the reputation for Garnett, and it isn’t a new one either.

  • Nov 4, 20107:56 pm
    by Demitrius Washington

    Reply

    good post patrick. i am a trailblazers fan and have seen firsthand and in person the type of player KG is. he’s a helluva player and a champion, but he plays dirty. anybody who has seen him play live has seen his cheap elbows and childish trash talking rants. patrick did not make this video, yet while extremely subjective, it gives a good idea of KG’s antics. everybody understands that the NBA is a man’s game and you have to be tough, but that does not mean you have to be classless and disrespectful. and lastly, nobody in this post truly wants to toss hands with a 6’11″ professional athlete, so idiotic post by adam madison. but at 6’3″ and with an mma background, i would love the chance for him to prove he isn’t the pussy he appears to be

  • Nov 4, 20108:55 pm
    by Kamron

    Reply

    @Oats
    “Small guys, soft guys, and Euros, those are his targets”
    Yeah, that argument makes a lot of sense in light of him slapping Tim Duncan in the back of the head. Tim Duncan; soft, weak Tim Duncan, who is not a star.
    Here’s KG getting into it with Dwight Howard, another weak non-star:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL0TA-49g1g
    And again, hitting Howard:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgSJHn3VYc4
    So yeah, he does get into it with star guys, and with big guys. And saying “that’s his reputation” over and over again doesn’t make it true. Just makes you sound desperate.

    @gmehl
    “I have no qualms taking up that offer and I will say it right to his face.”

    That’s pretty easy to say here on the internets. So you think 6’11″ 245lb pro athlete Charlie Villanueva is a pushover compared to you? Or maybe you’re just 5’8″ of rotund badass fury, like an enraged cockapoo. Perhaps you should be telling this to your supermodel girlfriend or your ninja buddies or whatever other BS you’d like to share with us.

    Of course, Ive forgotten where I am. Toughness in Detroit is all about taking on the real dangerous opponents- the other teams’ fans. Why fight with pro athletes when you can wail on some middle-aged guy in the stands? When that fan could turn out to be a UFC champion like gmilf, the risks are too high for normal athletes, but not for The Detroit Pistons.

  • Nov 4, 20109:53 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    OK guys, I’m gonna post a few responses and move on. This thread is getting to be a little too much, considering the original post wasn’t done with a ton of seriousness.
    @Kamron:
    “And, at 6’11? 245lbs or so, are you so sure that CV is soft? Think you could take him, since he’s such a wuss?”
    Typical weak strawman. Obviously I can’t or wouldn’t want to be in a position to have to defend myself against a NBA player or any professional athlete. But like Garnett has a reputation as someone who picks on weaker players, Villanueva has a reputation as a soft player. I’ve actually defended Villanueva a few times (context that following a writer and being familiar with his/her work before diving in with the condescending comments can provide), to the annoyance of some of the readers of this site who are less enthusiastic about Villanueva than I am.
    The point is, I didn’t create either label. I’m simply not denying that those labels exist.
    @Adam:
    “By the way, would any of the people name-calling Kevin Garnett have the gall to say it in his face?
    Who’s really the coward?”
    First, I respect that you used your name. That’s cool of you, and frankly not something a lot of commenters who openly disagree with a writer do very often.
    As to your points, as I mentioned in my reply to Kamron, I am not saying I am tougher than Garnett or anything of the sort. I’m not even saying he’s dirty or picks on weak players.
    What I am saying is the perception exists, and it’s not just among fans. Check Ben Wallace’s comments here. True or not, it’s out there. It’s fair game for me to write about, especially since this is a Pistons site and there has been a widely covered news item of an argument between Garnett and a Piston this week.
    And your first sentence in that quote — who are the Pistons strong? — Wallace would probably be my pick.
    Anyway, thanks for all the comments on this. Strange how I can post long, passionate analysis and only get comments from our few regulars, but post a lame youtube clip and you get people all over the country stopping by to leave expletive-filled tirades. C’est la vie I guess.

  • Nov 4, 201011:04 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    Sorry, one more post. For what it’s worth, Reggie Evans had this to say today:
    “I’ve seen KG get his ass whupped. … He’s always barking, and when it’s time to get physical, he’s always been a little chihuahua.”
    Like I said, this wasn’t created by someone on youtube unfairly splicing video clips together. This is a longstanding perception of KG among several NBA players.
    And honestly, I really do love watching Garnett play. The antics don’t bother me personally. But they’re well-known enough that I feel like it’s fair game to be written about.

  • Nov 5, 201012:40 am
    by Jay Cutler

    Reply

    This is a pathetic excuse of conveniently edited footage to make a personal point and draw web traffic.
    How about you focus on the fact that the Pistons suck like nobody’s business? Yeah.. walk away.

  • Nov 5, 201012:49 am
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    @Patrick
    Hey do get an award for ruffling some feathers with this youtube video i dug up? I never knew pistonpowered had so many followers that weren’t piston fans. There seems to of been a lot of Garnett fans though.

  • Nov 5, 20101:05 am
    by Kamron

    Reply

    How tough is Reggie Evans? “Evans — you talk about Vlade being a flopper? This guy is taking it to a whole new level. He goes down when the air conditioning comes on.” – Rick Adelman

    And there’s this: “I don’t know what’s wrong with that girl.” – Reggie Evans on Pau Gasol.
    Guess Gasol’s a woman. *Or*, you might not want to take everything every NBA player says as gospel just because it’s convenient. I know this probably shouldn’t be news to you given that the subject is KG, but NBA players *talk a lot of trash*, on and off the court.

  • Nov 5, 20102:23 am
    by Kamron

    Reply

    “There seems to of been a lot of Garnett fans though.”

    At lot of people view the NBA like a pro wrestling fan would- putting the other guy down is lifting their guy up. There’s no reason to watch pro wrestling for the actual beauty of the sport, since it’s not actually a sport.
    But rest assured, there are fans of the game out there who don’t need to be fanbois. We don’t need pin-up posters on our walls. Ive been ‘accused’ of being a fan of just about every great player in the league because I defended them against some jerkoff fanboi crap like “Dwight Howard has no offense”, “LeBron can’t play D” or “KG is a wimp”. Hell, I’ve been accused of having a man-crush Kobe by Lebron fans and being in love with Lebron by Kobe fans *in the same thread*, because I didn’t think either of them were talentless pieces of dog crap.

    The funniest part to me is this: the quality of a player or team is in no small part determined by the quality of their opponents. If you want Kobe to be perceived as great, then you ought to want Howard, LBJ, CP3 etc to be historically significant. If they’re a bunch of losers who couldn’t carry Jordan’s jock, then your hero is winning against inferior competition, right?

    Or, to put a period on the end of this thread: If KG is such a wimp that the average tubby Detroit Pistons fan could whup his ass, why did the Celts beat the crap out of the Pistons by like 25 the other night? Is Big Baby really that good? Or is Detroit just so terrible that they lose to a guy who could get beaten up by a fan?

  • Nov 5, 20103:38 am
    by Oats

    Reply

    @ Kamron. What a lame straw man argument. Who said ” that the average tubby Detroit Pistons fan could whup his ‘butt’?” I didn’t see that anywhere. Hell, who even said KG wasn’t a good basketball player? Or that the Celtics weren’t a good team? By the way, Rajon Rondo lighting us up had more to do with that 25 point win than KG did. Your ridiculous argument also seems to imply that KG being able to take on the readers of this site is somehow relevant to the discussion. It isn’t relevant though. The discussion is about a sentiment that Garnett acts tough but really isn’t, a sentiment that just so happens to be shared by some NBA players. It might not be widespread. In fact, I’d bet it is a pretty small minority, and even smaller minority that would actually say it. That doesn’t change the fact that it exists. Evans is not the only source for it either.
     
    What does your comment about people putting the other guy down have to do with this thread either? Sure, it happens, but it isn’t what this is about. This isn’t a nonsensical claim that KG is a wimp, it is based on reports and statements from guys in the NBA or that work closely with players in the NBA. In fact, if you look around, no one is questioning if KG is a good basketball player. This isn’t about denigrating a good player to make our guys look better in comparison. We also have no illusions that are guys are good. What is going on is someone noticed a video poking fun of a player’s established reputation. Hayes found the video amusing, and posted it. It also happens to be relevant right now considering the Garnett/Villanueva controversy. So, we have a humorous and relevant video being posted… to be humorous. Nothing more than that, just a quick laugh.
     
    I have no trouble believing a lot of threads you have been in are just meaningless bickering between the fanbois. That said, when you come to a new site, try looking around to see how much of that is actually going on. I’m sorry this offended your need to defend every good NBA player from all attacks, no matter how justified the criticisms are. Maybe KG isn’t a wimp (he most definitely isn’t), but he has a reputation for picking targets to avoid fights, and for bailing out when he actually does get one. Saying that is his reputation is different than calling him a wimp though. Actually, saying that reputation is accurate isn’t calling him a wimp either. Maybe he wants to screw with his opponents without getting himself ejected for fighting (I personally happen to think that). In that case he is a prudent bully, looking for the advantages of trash talking without risking the loss of his team’s best player getting booted. What is more, calling him a wimp is different than saying the guy can’t play. I don’t know, maybe I’m selling you short. Maybe you did look around, and you misconstrued things to think that this was all rampant fanboi-ism (how should that “word” be spelled exactly? I’m only using it because Kamron used fanbois, and I’m trying to be consistent). If so, I am sorry I made an assumption about your posts.

  • Nov 5, 20101:56 pm
    by Kamron

    Reply

    “What a lame straw man argument. Who said ” that the average tubby Detroit Pistons fan could whup his ‘butt’?” I didn’t see that anywhere.”

    It’s ridicule by exaggeration. Pretty common literary device. We’ve got two people who offered to fight KG (or, insult him to his face, basically the same thing) bc they’re so sure he’s a wimp. Or, two people who say that on the internet because it makes them feel manly or something, and serves as an effective counter to the point of who are they, calling a 6’11″ 250lbs pro athlete a pussy? Two people who I suspect would piss themselves if they actually got in a fistfight with *anyone*, let alone a 250lbs athlete…
    Now, you haven’t offered to fight him, so that’s not directed at you. But I think making fun of people who say stuff like that in bars or on blogs is just about mandatory- they’d better watch out or I will kick all of their asses at once, on TV no less.

    “The discussion is about a sentiment that Garnett acts tough but really isn’t, a sentiment that just so happens to be shared by some NBA players.”

    Also, whether Reggie Evans falls over when the AC is turned on, and whether Pau Gasol is actually a woman. Also sentiments shared by those in the NBA.
    I mean, do we need to take Reggie Evans’s word for it when we’ve got video? I hear that KG won’t tangle with stars or big guys, and I do a 5-minute search on youtube and we see him tangling with star big guys. Now (as you say later) he is smart enough to rarely get ejected. Which I think is good basketball- watch the Pistons-76ers clip, and ask yourself who’s smarter, Barkley or Mahorn? Who is doing more for his team and who is being selfish? And frankly, who looks tougher?
    Now, do I wish KG wouldn’t run his mouth? Sure. But that’s a pretty small flaw in my book. A lot of the great players have liked to jaw.
    Is Jason Maxiel tough because he’s willing to fight with KG and get them both ejected? Maxiel is a career bench guy, getting him and KG kicked out of a game together would make his top-10 list for contributions on the court. Which isn’t a dig a Maxiel- it’s smart for him to go at KG, and it’s smart for KG to avoid throwing a punch.

    “What does your comment about people putting the other guy down have to do with this thread either? Sure, it happens, but it isn’t what this is about.”

    I calls em like I sees em. And, on the fanboi note, Im pretty sure that many here wouldn’t enjoy a similar unfair video denigrating one of their hometown heroes. I think it’s kind of weird that someone would promote a clip while saying they know it’s unfair- but then, he also thinks it’s true, I dont think he quite knows *what* he thinks, other than putting KG down makes him feel a little better.

    “This isn’t about denigrating a good player to make our guys look better in comparison. We also have no illusions that are guys are good.”

    Not good at basketball; it’s hard to fool yourself into thinking that a 0-5 team is Finals-bound. But at least they aren’t, well: not tough, a punk, not intense, a bully, classless, a pussy, etc.
    Yeah, that’s exactly what this thread is about IMO. It’d be silly to put up a thread about how KG or Kobe etc isn’t a good basketball player, but pissing on their reputation is a pretty common tactic.
    Back when Shaq was winning ring after ring in LA, people loved to harp on how he was off making movies etc instead of working on his free throws. Weirdly few people said this about Ben Wallace, Tim Duncan, etc. It was basically jealousy (I mean, I’ve never understood why bigs are so bad at FTs, but it’s pretty common, not like some exceptional thing about Shaq; but Euro bigs shoot FTs pretty well, wtf).

    “That said, when you come to a new site, try looking around to see how much of that is actually going on.”

    Let’s see- both you and the guy who posted this video here assumed that I was a fan of KG or of the Celtics. Two other people think that KG is such a pussy they could take him in a fight pretty easily.
    And that’s the thinking: it’s all about allegiance. If Im defending KG I *must* be a Boston fan or a KG booster, I can’t just have an opinion about the guy.
    That’s fanboi logic; or, if you’d like a more highbrow way of saying it, it’s tribal ad hominem- no point in listening to that guy, he’s in love with KG and won’t hear anything bad about him. Let’s just listen to members of our own tribe. Our guys- they may not be the best team in the NBA, but at least they’re relatively classy guys who won’t take no guff.

    “Maybe he wants to screw with his opponents without getting himself ejected for fighting (I personally happen to think that).”

    So far Ive seen two people on this very short list of people posting comments offer to fight him *personally*, in addition to calling him a pussy etc. So maybe you disagree with those guys and with people who don’t want to fight him but think he’s a pushover.
    Maybe you think that KG is just baiting people like Rodman used to- that’s more or less what I think. Most star players who use their emotions do pull back before they get ejected or suspended (like in the first clip with Howard from #29, both guys let other players step in and break it up, bc they’re smart enough to not want to get tossed).
    So far, Ive heard that KG only gets into it with small players (demonstrably not true), soft players (not true), guys who aren’t stars (also not true). The argument isn’t even consistent- in #2 Patrick argues that Dirk is soft so KG going after him doesnt prove anything, but by #17 it’s “Garnett never, ever goes after star players.” Dirk isn’t a star? Whatever… but then has to discount the Duncan incident, altho his attempt doesn’t make sense to either argument (if going after stars is dangerous because of retaliation by their team, it doesn’t matter how Duncan reacts at the moment; if going after tough bigs is dangerous because they fight back, then Duncan is standing right next to KG and could easily turn and throw a punch).

  • Nov 6, 20102:59 am
    by Oats

    Reply

    I did not ever say you were a fan of KG… so, yeah. You probably mixed it up with another post, but I just want to clear that up. I also still don’t see your argument that we are trying to make our guys look better. Sorry, but we have been calling CV soft for awhile, including in this thread. I don’t see how talking about KGs rep changes our stance on CV, or our players. At most we might call Maxiell and Wallace tougher than him, but that wouldn’t even require taking into account the video. Both of them spend a lot of time banging with guys quite a bit bigger than them, and playing quite physical basketball. Their play alone makes it so calling them tougher than KG is defensible (I don’t personally subscribe to that line of thinking, at least with Maxiell, but it doesn’t sound ridiculous to me either). Considering that, I don’t see how this is supposed to be elevating our guys.
     
    What is more, saying they’d like to see how they’d fare in a fight with him is not the same thing as saying they actually want to fight him. I know for certain one of those posts was from a guy boasting of some MMA experience saying that he would like to fight him. I read his post as him wondering how he’d fare against someone like Garnett. Assuming he is telling the truth about his MMA experience, that doesn’t seem unreasonable. Admittedly he also said Garnett seems like a pussy in that post, so maybe I’m misinterpreting his point, but I read it as testing himself against Garnett and Garnett against him. This is different than, “I’d kick Garnett’s ass.” It’s, “I’d be willing to test out how tough he is.” It should also be pointed out, that should his claims of having some MMA experience be true, he isn’t an average tubby Pistons fan (not actually a Piston’s fan at all, mind you, just someone whose attention was drawn here by the video, like I suspect you were). The second post didn’t really say he would fight him, at least not if it is the post I am thinking of. He actually said he’d be willing to call Garnett a pussy to his face. Not quite the same thing. I actually interpret that as saying he doesn’t think he’d end up in the fight with Garnett, even if he said it. That is actually a logical opinion if you think Garnett is a pussy. I guess I do seem to be giving people the benefit of the doubt, and you aren’t, so there is that difference.
     
    Oh, earlier you pointed to evidence why what I said the reputation he had was wrong. Just to clarify, I was merely stating the reputation, not my stance on it. I didn’t think saying it was his reputation made me sound desperate. I thought I was differentiating his reputation from my opinion on the matter. Hope that helps you understand my stance a bit better.
     
    Let me further clarify my stance on the issue. I think he baits people, and smartly avoids the fight. Frankly, he is too valuable a player to get in these fights. I also see how this behavior would get him a reputation as a bully and a wimp. While I see this reputation as inaccurate, which in turn makes it fair game to be discussed. I also think there is some evidence, although quite poor evidence, to back up this reputation. That makes it even more open to discussion. I also understand that as a public figure, it is fair to make jokes about him based on his reputation.
     
    Apparently we don’t see eye to on this issue, or the posts in this forum. That is fine though, since we don’t have to agree. This is especially true because we are unlikely to ever cross paths again, including in cyberspace. Oh, and just for the record, I know a straw man when I see one. When you went into how a team with a guy who could be beat up by fans beat the Pistons, you left exaggeration behind and ventured into logical fallacy.

  • Nov 6, 20109:46 pm
    by Kamron

    Reply

    “That makes it even more open to discussion. I also understand that as a public figure, it is fair to make jokes about him based on his reputation.”

    To be clear, I never said that the subject was off-limits or crossed over some ethical line, just that it was lame and an attempt to distract from a bad team’s performance. I mean, yeah, sure, make fun of public figures (or private ones) all you want. You can even do it in bad taste, or unfairly, etc.
    Im not sure why me saying that this is lame is considered equal to saying “you should not poke fun at public figures” or something to that effect. Some folks here have an opinion about KG. I disagree with that opinion. We go back and forth a little bit. Fun is had by all.

    “Oh, and just for the record, I know a straw man when I see one. When you went into how a team with a guy who could be beat up by fans beat the Pistons, you left exaggeration behind and ventured into logical fallacy.”

    First, if you think my exaggeration unjustified, fine. But it’s still exaggeration. Even hyperbolic exaggeration is still exaggeration.
    Second, it’d only be a straw man if I misrepresented it as an opposing position and then defeated it, claiming to have defeated their actual position. Since I never defeated that position and claimed it was someone else’s, it isn’t a strawman argument. The general point of it was “belittling your opponents is not only petty, it also reduces your successes and magnifies your failures”.
    Third, “logical fallacy” means something other than “stuff that’s not true”. There is nothing illogical about a player who could be beaten up by fans, even if it turns out not to be true in this specific case. Logical fallacy is something like “If I own a private island then I am rich. I am rich, therefore I own a private island.”

    “I guess I do seem to be giving people the benefit of the doubt, and you aren’t, so there is that difference.”

    Yeah, that’s pretty often true with me.

  • Nov 6, 201010:18 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    You guys still going with this? Damn. Move on. Treat Kamron like KG would:

    “I’m not paying attention to nobodies any more.”

  • Nov 7, 20108:33 am
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    First…whoops…i mean last :-)

  • Nov 8, 20101:30 am
    by Kamron

    Reply

    So, that would make you a somebody? At least you managed to end it with a joke. Kinda like the Pistons themselves, if you don’t mind me closing the circle.

    • Dec 28, 201110:44 am
      by jeff

      Reply

      How do you feel about KG after the weak ish he pulled on Bill Walker…

  • Nov 9, 20108:20 am
    by Glenn

    Reply

    I think Kamron is a “get the last word” guy.

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    1. Arnold Schwarzenegger

    He is an American and Austrian actor, businessman and politician who
    started weight training at the age of 15.

    He gained the title of Mr. Universe at the age of 22, in conclusion his bodybuilding successes.
    Down the road in his bodybuilding career, he won several times to the Mr.
    Olympia competition.

    Even long after his retirement in the sport, he still remained to be a notable figure on earth of bodybuilding.

    They continued to win the title six additional
    times.

    2. Charles Atlas

    The Italy-born bodybuilder was named in 1921 from the
    Physical Culture magazine to be the “World’s Most Perfectly Developed Man”.
    Irrespective of being fully a world-renowned bodybuilder, Atlas also became popular for his Powerful Strain software.

    You probably will not feel the tale of the way the
    late Charles Atlas has grown from learning to be a scrawny weakling to 1 of the very most well-known extreme bodybuilders when he was still at his prime.

    3. Dr. Franco Columbu

    Despite his not being as large as his bodybuilder competitors, Dr.
    Columbu did not allow this to stop them from achieving worldwide
    success.

    Throughout The 1977 competitors for the World’s Strongest Man,
    he bagged the first place and that signaled a winning streak for them.
    Mr. World, Mr. Universe, Mr. Europe, a four-time winner of the Mr.
    Olympia title, champion power lifting brands and power lifting best lifts are among his accomplishments inside the bodybuilding industry.

    He may become a 67-year-old man today, but bodybuilder Dr.
    Franco Columbu and French actor was an extreme bodybuilder who was also a “World’s Strongest Man” competitor.

    4. Louis Lou Jude Ferrigno

    People who are old enough may remember Lou Ferrigno while the guy within the tv series and movies who played the Incredible Hulk.

    The 57-year old actor appeared in countless magazine covers which included
    bodybuilders.

    When he bagged the title of Master Mr. America, the first body-building honor came in 1971.

    He also went on to win some Mr. Olympia titles.
    At the peak of his bodybuilding career, Lou Ferrigno was referred
    to as one of the tallest professional bodybuilders, standing at a level of 6253.

    He is the very first black player to win Mr. America, Mr.
    World, Mr. Universe and the Mr. Olympia titles.

    6. Dexter Jackson

    Also referred to as “The Edge”, Dexter Jackson is just one more body-builder who needed exercising towards the extreme.
    He first became mixed up in world of bodybuilding in 1992.

    His most recent achievement came in winning the Mr. Olympia
    titles for 2008. The 5263, 39-year old player joined a seemingly
    countless number of body-building contests and so far, he
    is working towards preserving his perfectly sculptured body.

    7. Markus Rhl

    German bodybuilder Markus Rhl is really a professional
    bodybuilder for having among the highest players along
    with the world’s largest back during his period recognized.

    8. Gregg Valentino

    This fantastic bodybuilder is named whilst the player with the world’s biggest arms.
    Gregg Valentino started bodybuilding in the young age of
    thirteen. For 23 years, he trained normally, but decided to
    try out steroids afterwards.

    Why is him an intense bodybuilder will be the undeniable fact that from measuring merely a 213, his arms have cultivated to your massive
    283 description. But, getting what to the extreme because of the usage of steroids caused them to get rid of the entire world’s biggest biceps due to many medical problems which caused his hands to ‘explode’.

    Position at 52103, his competition weight attained to more than 130 kilos and his chest
    size tested an incredible 603.

    Through the span of his bodybuilding career, Markus Rhl continued to win games
    as other honors and Mr. Olympia in different bodybuilding
    contests — together with his big neck as his main
    asset.

    9. Johnnie E. Knutson

    Johnnie a. Garcia is just another serious bodybuilder and a New-Jersey native.

    10. Ronnie Coleman

    To Get A bodybuilder, generating a Mr. Olympia
    title is one of the best successes that he can ever have in
    his profession.

    Through the span of his bodybuilding career, he
    went on to bag numerous prizes in various tournaments.
    He is also the person behind training videos like
    “Ronnie Coleman’s First Training Video”, “The Unbelievables”, “The Cost of Redemption”, “On the Road”, “Constant” and “Invincible”.

    But what-if you increase that feat nine times over?

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