Comments on: Will Bynum has a 3-point shot now

By: Laser

Laser — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 23:44:45 +0000

@hayes: dude, no sweat. i appreciate it, but it’s not a big deal. some jokers calling me an idiot over the internet is meaningless to me. and i think i explained my stance adequately. the only SCARY thing about jonas going down is that it creates an excuse the pistons are surely going to use to try to bring this sorry roster back for a THIRD go-round. “but we didn’t have our energy guy!” ugh. watch for it. it’s going to happen.

@feldman: believe it or not, i really hate to argue something that’s this obvious. i love arguing, but not about things that i feel ridiculous having to spell out. but as much as i hate that, i hate when people say “it’s so obvious it’s not even up for discussion” so i’ll discuss…

first off, you’re not arguing fair, or arguing smart. i never said monroe was the best pick in the draft, just the best available at #7. and beyond being the best available, it just so happened he was also the best for this team that needed size and defense (which he’s got the size and strength to develop) and scoring up front, with an emphasis on someone who could contribute immediately. we got a multitalented big man with serious offensive skills and defensive potential. the other “options” (i put that in quotes because they were “options” in the same way that terrico white was an “option” at #7, in that they were available but NEVER EVER would have crossed ANYONE’S mind EVER who was drafting for the pistons) up front were (1) a big body who could contribute but had a very, very low ceiling, and (2) a major project with potential. neither of these guys would cross anyone’s mind with this particular roster and that draft position.

i could care less that minny or GSW did. they picked, what, 4 and 6?? i don’t know for certain what their specific needs were, and the guys they took were very obviously UNAVAILABLE to us at #7, so we didn’t have the opportunity to “overthink” them. from what i heard around draft night, minny wanted to get more athletic on the perimeter, and they happened to pick a guy who gave them just that and was rated higher than monroe overall. don’t forget, they still had love and jefferson crowding their front line at the time. and GSW, god knows why they do any stupid thing they do, but i know for sure that a guy like monroe would not have been a very good fit in their system. they have a peculiar system where they like their big men to defend (uh, as it were) and rebound, and they like their guards to jack up threes or slash or whatever. monroe is the kind of guy who would need to be incorporated into the offense to make good use of his skills, both scoring and passing. if you’re going to spend a choice pick on him, you better be able to MINIMALLY incorporate him into the offense, or IDEALLY build your offense at least partially around him. that’s just not GSW’s style. they went with the guy who was more athletic, more mature, and a better defender. frankly, i think his personality may have even played a significant role. he was considered a jovial, nice guy with a big personality, and i have a hunch that’s the kind of guy they wanted to soften the thuggish reputation and demeanor of the team. so there are your reasons why monroe wasn’t ideal for them. nothing i typed just now matters to what i said, but you asked for it.

monroe was an ideal fit. dumars had said that his top big men were favors and cousins (same as just about everyone) and that monroe was slightly behind them in that tier. the next tier had udoh, aldrich and davis. joe got a call on draft night eve that monroe would probably be available, and his mind was made up.

i may be prone to hyperbole, but this was absolutely the only player on the board who was an option. nobody else was getting drafted #7 with the options available. nobody. ever. no matter who was drafting. ed davis’s father would have taken monroe at 7 with this team. cole aldrich, sitting in a GM seat, would have picked monroe. i can not imagine why anyone with knowledge of the game thinks this is an arguable issue. this is a fact. it’s not hyperbole. there was a 100% chance monroe was going to get picked there with the guys left on the board. he gets no credit. i’ll “soften” my stance to say that monroe at #7 was ABSOLUTELY EVERY BIT AS EASY AS THE EASIEST PICKS OF ALL TIME. jordan, lebron, john wall. name a player who was drafted and it will be NO EASIER a pick than monroe was for dumars at 7. there is no such thing as an easier decision, because there was no real “decision” to make. when you only have one option, it’s not even a decision. it was written in stone the moment GSW took udoh.

anyone who was waiting anxiously after the 6th pick, wondering who joe would draft that night, or even thinking it was up for debate/discussion/what-have-you did not have the FOGGIEST idea about the realities of the league. i can’t stress enough, i literally JUMPED off the couch and screamed when GSW took udoh, because the surest thing in the universe was that monroe was going to be a piston. death, taxes and monroe getting drafted #7. the only three certainties in the world.

By: Dan Feldman

Dan Feldman — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 19:38:50 +0000

Laser, you still have to give Dumars some credit for drafting Monroe. If it was so obvious, why didn’t Minnesota or Golden State pick him? Dumars deserves credit for not overthinking, like those other two teams.

By: Patrick Hayes

Patrick Hayes — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 19:34:27 +0000

@laser:
If I didn’t step in, that’s my bad. I’m trying to stay on top of that sort of thing better now though. And the Jerebko thread had a huge number of comments, so I may not have paid as much attention as I should.
“give the man credit for the biggest no-brainer pick in the history of the league.”
Hyperbole much? Really good players fall every year in the draft. Brandon Jennings getting to No. 10 in 2009 is a good example. Lawson/Collison in that same draft as well. There are plenty of guys who were bigger “no brainers” than Monroe. Jordan at No. 3 by the Bulls? Durant at No. 2? I’d say it’s pretty common for GMs to luck into picks.

By: Laser

Laser — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 19:02:22 +0000

to get a little more specific about the rotten roster: we have NO point play, too many shooting guards and not enough minutes or shots for them, no quality big men, an uncreative and inexperienced coach. all of the guys we’d like to move have been handed unmovable contracts. plus there’s a staunch refusal to maximize our talent, like pairing bynum and rip, stuckey and gordon. and how much you wanna bet t-mac is the first SF off the bench come the regular season?

By: Laser

Laser — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 18:57:47 +0000

@hayes: i tried to stress as much as humanly possible that i was making a BOLD statement, but joe gets so much credit in this town it drives me CRAZY. i caught a LOT of sh*t and was called plenty of names (including but not limited to “blind idiot,” and i didn’t see you step in) for my stance that jerebko’s injury is not a big deal to the team’s big picture. and i can’t stress enough how insane and indefensible it is to give the man credit for the biggest no-brainer pick in the history of the league. i promise not to make a habit of personal attacks, but giving him credit for that pick is completely inexcusable and needs correcting.

@pcb: do some research, expert. udoh was off the board. i nearly had a heart attack when stern called his name for the sixth pick. and it wasn’t because i was excited about all the “options” joe was left with. it was because there was a universal 100% certainty that we’d lucked into monroe. nobody on the planet thought joe would, should or could take aldrich (pick 14 i think, something like that), davis (pick 11 i think) or aminu. everybody who had the faintest grasp of the NBA knew who joe was picking. easiest pick since lebron. hands down. ZERO percent chance we picked anyone but monroe. absolute zero. have i been clear enough? we live in a world of gray, and there’s room for debate almost everywhere, but not here. not even close. it was monroe by a country mile. davis was a project who smells too much like amir for anyone’s tastes, and aldrich’s ceiling was widely considered joel pryzbilla. monroe was absolutely everything we could have dreamed of that far down the board. give me this one or you’re going to look silly.

as for the drafts, i don’t kill joe for darko, and i won’t lick his feet for monroe. daye, i’ll admit, is an intriguing guy. i thought it was crazy to draft a project SF, but i see what the kid is capable of, and i like it. but i also thought it was crazy to draft three small forwards in perhaps the richest point guard draft in NBA history when this team was, and is, in DESPERATE need of a point guard. time will tell how it pans out. right now, i don’t want to kill him for the daye pick, but i’m still in wait-and-see mode. collison and lawson could make daye look like a bad pick, or maybe not. jj was obviously a great find. stuckey was so-so; i’d like him a lot more if he didn’t spark the downfall of the team. max was a good pick. amir could have been a “great” pick if joe had traded him soon enough to get some value. i loved afflalo, but he was dumped for nothing. so it’s a mixed bag. i’m not going to give him credit for being a great drafter. he’s an average drafter. that’s all.

if you think stuckey is a legit 2 guard, how can you justify holding onto him in a backcourt that has long-term, unmovable commitments to TWO shooting guards already? and to the tune of almost $25 million a year?? unheard of! so we can somehow afford to have THREE shooting guards on the roster eating up something like $30 million bucks a year??? that’s more than half the salary cap! for one position where we’re better off with ONE of these guys than all three. insanity. think about what you’re saying.

if you don’t want me to bring up AI when you say joe gets full value for his players, please bring up some other examples to distract me. for two examples, he gave away amir and afflalo for cap space that allowed us to sign wilcox. he got ben wallace for grant hill, but i’ll chalk that one up to luck since hill was a goner anyways. he let sheed walk, so he got ZERO value there. who, exactly, has he gotten full value for? or any value for?

this is the kind of bullsh*t that boils my blood. go ahead and give joe unlimited credit for the easiest decisions of all time and give him a free pass for all of his many, many blunders. i guess you can’t shake a reputation, can you? it’s ridiculous, and it makes it impossible for me to take you seriously. i get it. joe is the best. he can do no wrong. there are no limits to the numbers of shooting guards he can overpay. bla bla bla.

and the “only” problem with this team is the sorry makeup of the roster and the long-term commitments to players who cannot succeed together. how is anyone expected to take you seriously?

By: Patrick Hayes

Patrick Hayes — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 13:37:03 +0000

@laser:
Chill with the “idiot” stuff. You could’ve made that same point without that sentence. No need for that here. Unless you are replying to commenters like ‘Adam’ or ‘Lee Scruggs’, in which case all insults are welcome and appreciated.

By: detroitpcb

detroitpcb — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 12:28:56 +0000

@laser

Joe could have taken Davis, or Aldrich or Udoh.

You tryingto tell me Joe hasn’t had two great drafts back to back, Laser? Doesn’t matter if one player was a gift.

I do not believe Stuckey should be traded, though i may change my opinion by the end of the season. I think he is a legit 2-guard who can play at a very high level and a young player who is about to get his respect from the officials. If Stuckey gets to the line another 2 or 3 times he becomes a seriously valuable scorer.

i think Rip needs to go and i am sure Joe will not just give him away. Joe has a rep for getting full value for his players – and don’t bring up AI – that was a legit roll of the dice though the scouts should have seen the deterioration in his game from the year before.

The only problem with this team is that they don’t have the big man in the middle – they have all the complementary pieces to be a challanger in the East. Right now it is hard to tell how things fit together and which pieces you should keep. We all have our opinions. Mine is that Stuckey is a legit starting two guard in this league and we should not give him up just because he is not a true point.

By: Laser

Laser — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 23:21:53 +0000

his drafting has been average. i try to make statements like this RARELY and DELIBERATELY, bur only an idiot would pat joe on the back for drafting monroe. we were lucky he fell to #7, and he was the easiest choice since lebron went #1 in 2003. it was that or draft ed davis, who fell like 7 more spots and could be the next amir johnson. you’re smarter than that, pcb. use your brain. think critically. monroe was a gift from god to dumars and nothing more. say what you want about the daye pick; he looks good, but i’m not sure who else was available at the time. daye could very well be a crazy good pick at 15, but monroe was giftwrapped with a bow on it.

the only reason to start stuckey is to set up a trade. we can’t afford stuckey or tayshaun, and i’m going to take a sh*t on the palace stairs if we let those guys walk for nothing or hand them absurd extensions. joe didn’t want to hire a legitimate coach and pay him real money because we’re rebuilding; he sure as sh*t can’t afford to add more rich contracts to this perimeter.

By: detroitpcb

detroitpcb — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 22:12:54 +0000

I thought both guards played extremely well the other night against Dallas. I think Q has already shown (last season & this preseason) that he is willing to play them together – moving Stuckey to the two were he belongs.

I think Joe can be criticized for using his cap room on CV & Ben Gorgon but not for deconstructing the old team, nor for giving Stuckey minutes. And his drafting has been excellent: JJ, Daye, Monroe have been a great haul.

I think the biggest issue on this team is going to be Rip, and the fact that he has to start (see the story the other day were it was related that Q asked him if it was ok that Rip would not start against Atlanta and Rip said “fine.”

It looks like Daye will get minutes out of position. It looks like McGrady will be babied along until mid-December. That still leaves Ben Gordon, Stuckey & Rip all needing minutes at the two guard.

That logjam needs to be freed up by a trade. Either Rip or Ben need to go and i wouldn’t mind seeing them move CV, Max, or Wilcox either. With 11 scouts at the game the other night and the new ownership deal almost in place, maybe Joe will make a trade before the season starts. I think we could pry Gorat from Orlando. Might not be a long term answer but would sure help this season.

By: gmehl1977

gmehl1977 — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 22:07:23 +0000

@Alan
I think you nailed the issue right on the head with comment 12. If they pull the plug on Stuckey starting then 1) his value will drop 2) his confidence goes south 3) it would be Joe admitting that he fcuked up thinking that Stuckey was able to take Billups place. I love Joe and all and i think he is a great GM but i think it might be time to put his hand up and cut his losses with the Stuckey fiasco. I am not saying trade him but put him in the sixth man role where he can be more effective. This would not be easy because as i pointed out in point 2 his confidence and ego will drop dramatically and along with it more than likely his value (however much that is). There has to be a choice made soon with Stuckey looking to get paid and with Hamilton & Gordon tied up. If Hamilton can’t be traded for value then Stuckey might have to pack his bags.