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Too much focus on Kevin Durant on final play takes Charlie Villanueva’s greatest triumph as a Detroit Piston away from him

Charlie Villanueva can’t catch a break.

Friday’s loss against the Oklahoma City Thunder certainly wasn’t his best game as a Piston, but after establishing himself as a physical presence on the offensive glass, after battling on defense and after getting crunch time minutes — a rarity for him last season — for the second straight game, Villanueva spotted up in the corner, caught a nice feed from Ben Gordon and calmly knocked down what looked like the game-winning 3-pointer to put the Pistons up 104-103 with fewer than 10 seconds left against the Thunder.

Then, for the second straight contest, a defensive breakdown cost the Pistons the game. Against New Jersey, it was three players getting beat to a loose ball by Devin Harris that resulted in a game-winning shot. Against OKC, it was Jason Maxiell getting beat off the dribble by Jeff Green while Ben Wallace, who was supposed to be the weakside help on the play, got caught in no-man’s land and was late getting to Green because Wallace was cheating toward Kevin Durant. Green got to the basket unscathed and Detroit couldn’t get off a final shot with no timeouts remaining.

A lot went right for the Pistons, and I’ll get into those positives below. But my immediate take away was simply feeling bad for Villanueva. I’ve made no secret of my intrigue with Charlie V. I think he’s tougher than he gets credit for, and I think he genuinely wants to get better, wants to live up to his contract and wants to be successful in Detroit. He desperately needed a moment like the one he almost had tonight. Not that the Pistons losing necessarily erased the positive strides he made in other areas during the game, but we all know that memories from losses tend to fade quickly while game-winning shots tend to hang around all season. Villanueva, through two games, has the appearance of a better, more disciplined player than he was last season and that’s a good thing.

In fact, there were many good things that happened in this game. The Pistons shot a very good 47 percent. They held Oklahoma City to sub-40 percent shooting. The 47-43 rebounding disparity favored the Thunder, but not significantly. And most importantly, for the second straight game the Pistons were fun to watch, played cohesively and showed that there is no reason they can’t compete and have a chance to win games against good teams.

The defense is back

With great individual offensive performances by two players, most writers would start there. But if you’re curious as to why the Pistons almost won this game, look no further than this stat: 20-55. That is the combined field goals made and attempted by OKC’s three leading scorers, Durant, Green and Russell Westbrook. The Pistons were physical with them. They had their hands in faces of jump shooters all night. And as I said in the game preview, they contained Kevin Durant by making him a high-volume shooter. Durant scored 30 points, but because he gets to the line a ridiculous amount, he’s a virtual lock to go for almost 30 every night. All defenses can do against him is try and make it an inefficient 30, and the Pistons in their last three meetings with the Thunder have held Durant to 24-for-59 shooting. That’s as good a defensive job as any team in the league does against Durant.

If the defense is back, why did it give up more 100 points?

John Kuester allowed the Pistons to push the pace. The guards frequently ran on made baskets, caught the Thunder defense before it set and scored buckets in the lane all night. Frankly, I’m not used to seeing the Pistons play that aggressively on offense. They took and made good shots, they got offensive rebounds, and they shot a very good 47 percent.

So why did they lose?

Obviously, they looked terrible on the last defensive possession of the game. It kind of ruined what was otherwise a really good defensive effort. But the game would’ve been a pretty lopsided affair in favor of the Pistons had they protected the basketball. After opening the season with a clean six-turnover performance in New Jersey, the Pistons turned it over 18 times, including 12 in the first half, against Oklahoma City. Two of the main culprits? The usually steady Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince. Those guys are typically stabilizing influence in the starting lineup, but they combined for seven turnovers mostly because they each uncharacteristically threw some soft passes or made poor reads on where guys were going to be on the court.

Also, Austin Daye had his second straight poor shooting night, going 2-for-11. If he made one or two of those shots — and the Thunder were largely leaving him open — the Pistons probably win.

On to the rotation

Greg Monroe didn’t get on the court again. I already clowned some talk radio guys a bit, after they proclaimed after one DNP-CD in his first career game that Monroe is "a bust." I don’t know what those guys will think after he *gasp* picked up his second.

There are Pistons fans who are going to clamor for Monroe to play all season. I think I’m OK with him sitting as long as the Pistons are playing as competitively as they are right now. I always think it’s better for young guys to play their way into the lineup with strong practice habits, as Jonas Jerebko did last season and as Daye did this preseason, rather than just getting handed minutes because the franchise hopes they grow into a cornerstone.

Maxiell is not a great player, but he’s decent in some aspects of the game and he holds his own against most bigs in the league. At a minimum, I think it’s OK for the coaches to expect Monroe to beat Maxiell out before he gets minutes. My hope (for the sake of the franchise) is that Monroe quickly asserts himself as a better player, but if that doesn’t happen all season, I’m OK with Kuester keeping him glued to the bench.

There were a couple other rotation oddities, though. Tracy McGrady played only six minutes. He grabbed a couple rebounds, had an assist and looked really stiff on two plays, one where he was cutting to the basket and lost a pass off his leg and another where he couldn’t get to a lob thrown his way. McGrady didn’t get back into the game in the second half.

Wallace also had his minutes limited. He played just 20 minutes, grabbing eight rebounds with three blocks. He sat out most of the fourth, coming back in for the final play. I don’t know why he didn’t play more — perhaps Kuester was trying to save him for tomorrow since the Pistons have a back-to-back? I understand the desire to not overuse him, but having him out there for a few more minutes defensively could’ve certainly changed the outcome of the game.

Are you ever gonna get to Gordon or Stuckey, or what?

Saving the best for last? First, I just want to post their combined stat lines: 21-for-34, 56 points, 10 assists, 4 turnovers, 9 rebounds, 15 free throws attempted.

Stuckey has played one of the best two-game stretches as a point guard and playmaker in his career. He didn’t have his first turnover of the season until late in the second quarter of this game. He consistently made the right pass all night. He not only got inside, but he finished strong, including one vicious dunk in traffic and what would have been a second one had Thabo Sefalosha not fouled him. Through two games, Stuckey is averaging nine assists and just two turnovers a game, he’s had strong defensive efforts against two very good young point guards (yeah I know, Devin Harris had a good game, but that was largely due to his great fourth quarter after starting the game sluggishly), and he’s shooting over 50 percent. Stuckey has shown these flashes that he’s on the verge of putting his vast array of skills together throughout his career, and he’s consistently fallen back to mediocrity. He absolutely has to do it for a full season, but the Pistons have to be encouraged by this start.

And as for Gordon, that was a vintage performance. As fellow Pistons writer Steve Kays said on Twitter, "Ben Gordon is making the same kind of shots he was making against Boston in the 09 playoffs." Gordon, due to his injuries, didn’t have a dynamic scoring performance like that last season, where it seemed like every shot he took was going in, and not only going in, but barely moving the net. But I know Gordon can score. I was watching him defensively.

When Stuckey was out of the game, Gordon was guarding Westbrook, and not only guarding him, but doing an effective job. He was physical, bumping him and pressuring him full-court. He also moved his feet well and stayed in front of his man defensively.

Just glancing at Gordon, he looks like a guy who should be lock-down. He’s obviously a physical specimen and he’s obviously quick. Those are the most important physical skills when it comes to perimeter defense. For whatever reason, he’s never seemed as committed to his defense as his offense. Against Oklahoma City, he played both ends of the court with the same intensity, and he was simply dominant.

It’s early in the season, and the Pistons are 0-2. But they’ve established that they will play hard and be competitive, once against a not-so-good team and once against a team that some people predicted to get to the NBA Finals. The Pistons have glaring deficiencies, which I don’t think are a surprise to anyone who watches the team with an honest eye. But in the NBA, deficient teams fairly frequently beat more talented teams by playing the intensity the Pistons have played at through two games. I don’t know if they can maintain it, but I’m certainly more hopeful now than I was a few short weeks ago after watching them get beat down in the preseason opener in Miami.


  • Oct 29, 201011:56 pm
    by Alan


    Durant got his points and there’s no stopping that.  47 free-throws?  Wow!  That’s what stands out most to me.  Also, Detroit dug themselves a hole in the first half with some real, real sloppy passes – all the starters are guilty.
    It was a fun game to watch as Detroit came back and Gordon and Stuckey looked like a real force of a backcourt tandem.  Also, a great game by Villanueva.  I can’t say he looks fast out there, I just can’t.  But having seen his play this year, and having watched it last year, it’s clear he was injured last year and he looks healthy.  Daye’s leash on the starting spot should tighten up with his poor start.  Between Joe Smith and Jeff Green, Daye has had the matchups as good as they’ll get this season.  2 for 11 shooting, when you’re a shooter, is not good enough.

  • Oct 30, 201012:03 am
    by Laser


    well i don’t think villa’s three looked like the “game winner,” really. i’ll take a player who’s in the discussion for top three in the league down one with seven seconds left against this defense. it was the first time i thought the pistons had an honest chance of winning, but i was pretty sure durant could draw a foul, and the best we could hope for was a split at the stripe and overtime. so happens the thunder being so safe a bet that another guy managed an uncontested layup. and ben didn’t even launch a prayer! way he was shooting we had a shot.
    i’ll have more thoughts in a little while. some more optimistic than you think, but don’t get any ideas.

  • Oct 30, 201012:16 am
    by Patrick Hayes



    Thunder shot 47 FTs in their season-opener against Chicago as well. They get a TON of foul calls, it’s part of their game, particularly Durant’s. In the first half, on that sweep through with the ball play when Prince was guarding him tight, Durant is a master of bringing the ball through and quickly elevating and creating contact. He gets guys all the time with that.

    There were a lot of soft calls — at least six fouls called on guys shooting jumpers, which seemed excessive — but it’s just how the Thunder play.

  • Oct 30, 201012:22 am
    by Alan


    47 FTs is a ton…I meant it as a compliment to the Thunder.  I don’t know how Detroit is supposed to overcome that.  Perhaps a few less turnovers in the first half and then maybe it doesn’t come down to one play at the end.
    Anyways, Gordon and Stuckey looked terrific together in the 2nd half.  I can’t imagine it will look like that every night but that was very, very encouraging.

  • Oct 30, 20101:18 am
    by detroitpcb


    i went to the game tonight and aside from the parade to the foul line by OKC (and yes, Durant will win the scoring title if he continues to get to the line like that) the thing that stood out the most was how useless Rip Hamilton was. He made one classic Rip curl off a screen for a 12 foot shot in the lane and hit one open three but made several stupid plays that led to turnovers and OKC transition scores.

    The other thing that stood out was the great game Stuckey had against Westbrook. Stuckey outplayed him on both ends of the floor – though the Pistons are running Tay at the point for long stretches – i suppose because Bynum did not play.

    Daye had a second poor shooting night but he aggressively looked for his shot even though he is on the floor with the starters and they seemed ok with it. He gets down on himself when he misses shots, but he has the right mentality and didn’t hesitate to shoot it again. He’ll be fine.

    Q wasted a timeout on that jump ball call which led to the Pistons being without a TO after OKC scored with 2.5 on the clock.

    I also question the T he took. If the idea was to challenge the refs over the parade to the line OKC was making, it should have been taken earlier.

    Ben Gordon was making those high degree of difficulty shots and getting to the line. When he plays like that you can see why Joe signed him. Now if only he hadn’t given Rip that extension.

    And finally, i disagree with Patrick. CV got tossed around inside and other than one key board i remember, was invisible on the glass. The two players on this team who should be traded for a big are CV and Rip.

  • Oct 30, 20101:46 am
    by Patrick Hayes


    First, no one is trading a legit or even useful big for Rip or CV or any combination of the two. It’s not happening.
    Second, Villanueva had seven boards in about 26 minutes. He had four offensive rebounds, three of them in traffic. On two of them, he went back up for layups. On one, he was fouled and got to the line and hit both free throws on a put-back attempt. On the fourth, he had the ball blocked from behind. He had the team’s highest +/- at a +8. The Pistons were much, much better with him in the game. I mean, sometimes it’s easy to miss things watching a game live rather than having the benefit of replays and such at home, but Villanueva was pretty good, he was an inside presence and, most importantly, he rebounded well, particularly on the offensive glass. If he continues to play the way he did vs. OKC and Daye continues to play as poorly as he has the first two games, Villanueva will be starting.
    I know Daye is your guy. But when a guy who is, at best, the teams fourth best offensive player in the starting lineup, shooting it 11 times when you’re struggling isn’t a good thing. I would much rather he pass to Stuckey, Hamilton or Prince, who all shot over 50 percent.
    Also, just a small correction on Hamilton. He actually had his best shooting game in a while, including last season. He scored on the curl play you mention, but you neglect to mention the two drives he had where he attacked the basket and had beautiful finishes in traffic. He also was 2-for-2 on three-pointers, he didn’t hit just one. He shot 5-for-10 in the game and, along with Prince, helped do a really good defensive job on Durant (holding him to 9-of-24 shooting) as those two were taking turns guarding him most of the game. As I said, he turned it over too often, but he didn’t have a bad game at all. Far from it, other than the turnovers, which are a rarity for him. I don’t know how you can criticize a guy’s shooting performance when he shoots 50 percent. He scored 14 points on a night when two other guys had it going more, so it made sense to defer. But Hamilton and Prince both played very good complimentary scoring roles, both knocked down shots and both played good defense.

  • Oct 30, 20101:54 am
    by Laser


    overall: the thunder’s just plain a better team. hard to disagree with that. and we had to foul them a TON to stop them. not much else we can do, since we were outmatched. this may sound like “laser being laser,” but i felt like the thunder were doing what the pistons used to do back when they were good: let an inferior team hang in there instead of stepping on their throats, and just executing in the end to secure the win.
    gordon: looked great, but his biggest stretches of offense he was working to get his own shots. he’s not going to be able to shoot like that every night, especially working so hard in isos. it’s good that he doesn’t need to be set up all the time, but it would be nice if someone helped get him some easier shots; his offense would certainly be more reliable that way. and “gordon vs. the world” just isn’t a good game plan. and it’s hard to
    stuckey: played a great game (only averaging 8 AST, fyi, but still a good number). we’ll see if these assist numbers are sustainable, but i do wish he was able to set guys up in crunch time and manage a game. still, accepting that he is who we know he is… for the first time i think he might be taking steps towards realizing his potential. the thing that really made me happy was his efforts to finish strong. there’s no excuse for his poor finishing when he’s so big and strong and good at penetrating, so i hope he keeps up this aggression.
    on the other hand: these guys shouldered SO much of the scoring burden. which can be expected, but there was a lot of individual basketball going on with those guys, and we didn’t get the W. that’s not a good combination. and when the team’s healthy, they’re not going to be able to play minutes like that. put will bynum in the mix and give t-mac his customary 15, and there’s just not enough for these guys to play like they did. i always thought gordon would have had a much better season with more than, say, 18 minutes to play… and he’s not usually going to luck into 32. and look at the 4th quarter scoring; villa’s make and 2 free throws were the ONLY pistons offense beside stuck and gordon. that would be troubling in a WIN. as pleased as i am with some individual pieces, the team looks as bad as i expected. if you’re not winning these games that young teams are trying to hand you, i don’t see where the wins will come from.
    daye: shouldn’t be the starter. and probably shouldn’t be playing the 4 much at all. as stated above, he’s gotten some relatively great matchups and failed to capitalize. he’s there for his offense, but his shooting’s been terrible. hopefully Q won’t be shy (stubborn) about pulling the plug, but i have a feeling he will. villa’s certainly been the better player. each is here for his offense, and villa scored twice as much on as many shots.
    rotation: not to repeat myself too much (because i know some people hate that), but i expect this team to do better with one or two fewer guards. take away even will bynum, and give t-mac only 6 minutes, and the team’s going to be better off. all these guards basically do the same stuff anyways. better to have a smaller number to share the minutes and develop more defined rotations and roles.
    the future: the team still stinks, and it’s tough to imagine them winning many games, no matter how hard they play, but i’m starting to think that we could actually have something here if we moved some pieces around. and by “something” i mean a team that’s exciting and loses something under 50 games. i have ZERO faith that the necessary moves will be made, and all these quality parts will continue to go to waste being slapped together all wrong.
    even if we could unload tayshaun for draft picks, you could play a starting lineup of bynum, rip, stuckey at the 3, villa and big ben. and the rotations go something like this: gordon off the bench at 2, daye at 3, monroe at 4, and platoon max with ben because you pretty much have to. it’s a manageable nine man rotation (t-mac can get spot minutes if someone insists, but he really doesn’t look healthy at all). stuckey’s a little undersized at the 3, but this roster dictates that SOME people be played out of position, and that’s an option i’m more comfortable with. you have daye as an option with more length, and you can move stuckey around with various three guard sets. could be a dynamic and entertaining team, even if it’s not very good.
    add a few quality draft picks and a healthy jerebko, and next year might have us on the right track. heck, any track at all would be an upgrade. i doubt it materializes, but that wouldn’t be so bad. the wait to unload rip wouldn’t be so painful.

  • Oct 30, 20102:15 am
    by Laser


    @pcb: geez. and people think i’m a character. here are two things you need to give up… 1) no sense proposing any more trade scenarios for rip and villa. nobody wants them, and they have terrible contracts. it’s not happening. 2) nobody takes anything you say about your boyfriend, austin daye. you’re biased. you’re in love. that’s fine. but nobody on the planet sees what you see in him. he’s not a PF, and there’s no reason to believe he’ll be “fine” as a starting PF. if he earned the starting job with fine play in meaningless games, he’s sure to lose it to villa if they keep playing like they are. that is all. for the most part you seem like an ok guy, but these are serious problems.

  • [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Patrick Hayes, PistonPowered Feed. PistonPowered Feed said: Too much focus on Kevin Durant on final play takes Charlie Villanueva’s greatest triump as a Piston away from him:… http://bit.ly/bNcGQe [...]

  • Oct 30, 20103:29 am
    by nuetes


    The Pistons actually have talent. I can’t believe it. There is some talent on this team I wasn’t expecting to see. One guy I’m jealous of is Ibaka, because he’s so young. Ben Wallace is our Ibaka, but he’s not getting any younger. I’d love a young big man with those skills.
    If Stuckey keeps this up I’m going to have to keep my mouth shut about him. Stuckey has talent, he doesn’t have consistency. He’s been picking his spots a lot more wisely for the most part. It’s so refreshing to see him trying to throw down dunks. I’m loving what I’m seeing out of Stuckey so far. He doesn’t need a 3 point shot, and I’ve never ever stated that I wish he shot better from 3. He doesn’t need a 3 point shot to be good. He just has to finish better, which he’s done, and find the open man, which he’s also done.
    Gordon tore it up. He was hitting shots from everywhere. That’s the good Gordon. When he’s on he’s deadly. CV played a good game as well. He battled for boards and got down on the block a few times. He played the game you’d like to see from him.
    Now here’s the problem. The Pistons played a great game. Stuckey, Gordon, and CV all played great. The lost, at home, to a team that shot 38% from the field. They turned it over and gave up way too many foul shots. How many games are we going to see this season where all three of those guys play good? That’s pretty much what it’s going to take to win games against better teams. I’m not counting on Rip for anything anymore. If this team is going to win games it’s going to come down to Stuckey, Gordon, and CV playing good games. How often is that going to occur during the same game?
    Another DNP for Monroe and I don’t care. The Pistons are actually fun to watch right now. They’ve been in two games. Yeah they lost, but they’ve been entertaining. I’m not sure I’m all that excited to see Monroe go out there and become a liability just yet. I still don’t think the Pistons are going to be any good, because so much has to go right for them to win, but I’ve jumped in the season is too early to throw it away boat. Monroe can wait until the season is a guaranteed wash before he gets on the court.

  • Oct 30, 20108:43 am
    by Patrick Hayes


    “hard to disagree with that. and we had to foul them a TON to stop them.”
    Not disagreeing with anything really, but I do just want to stress that they get to the line a ton against everyone. It wasn’t like the Pistons were doing something most other teams don’t against OKC. 40+ times in both games this season, and Durant led the league in FT attempts by a mile last year.
    And I agree 100 percent on Villanueva. He’s just simply been the better player than Daye these first two games, and most importantly, he’s shown he’ll make the effort on defense. I still don’t think he’ll ever be a “good” defender, but as long as he’s sticking his nose in under the boards and not being afraid of contact, he’ll be solid enough to not be a complete liability at that end. He’s really the only option at power forward.

  • Oct 30, 20108:45 am
    by Patrick Hayes


    “It’s so refreshing to see him trying to throw down dunks. I’m loving what I’m seeing out of Stuckey so far. He doesn’t need a 3 point shot, and I’ve never ever stated that I wish he shot better from 3.”
    He doesn’t need a three-point shot, but he does have to hit an open 15-footer with consistency (and he’s done that for the first two games). That’s not unreasonable. But yeah, as long as he’s finishing inside, he’s going to be productive. If he gets his shooting percentage up to 48ish range this season, he’ll be one of the most improved players in the league.

  • Oct 30, 201010:33 am
    by Alan


    ” I still don’t think the Pistons are going to be any good, because so much has to go right for them to win, but I’ve jumped in the season is too early to throw it away boat. Monroe can wait until the season is a guaranteed wash before he gets on the court.”
    I couldn’t have said it better myself.

    Now, about Daye.  Detroit plays a Boozer-less Chicago tonight.  Gibson will start up-front for the Bulls and I figure Daye gets his final crack to right the ship this evening.  On Tuesday, regardless of Daye’s performance tonight, Q will have to start a different PF against Boston and their enormous front line.  I dunno who.  I suppose Charlie is making a case for himself.  Perhaps a healthy Wilcox gets the start (ugh).

    I agree with you that it’d be nice finding Gordon for shots of screens or, in general, being more in flow with the offense.  I’ll always want to see some ISOs for him because, DAMN…he is just fun to watch when he’s doing that.

  • Oct 30, 201010:44 am
    by detroitpcb



    yes, it is easy to miss things live and i had not seen a stat sheet but i do remember those two early drives to the basket Rip made in transition. They were nice plays and proved that even the old guys on this team can play at a faster pace. As for those boards CV got in traffic, please remember that OKC is not the most physical team and CV was getting bounced around down low. There are some things it is easier to see live and how someone physically matches up is one of them. CV is not very athletic. He is not very strong. He never seems to have a good base, except when he is making a move to the basket off the dribble or when he is spot up shooting the three. In other words, on the defensive end, he is always off balence or out of position. He basically had 3 defensive rebounds in 26 minutes. If those are good numbers from your power forward then i am a dunce. Finally, you cannot tell me that Rip and CV are unmovable as players. They both have attractive skill sets. Rip’s contract may make him very difficult to move but CV’s contract is reasonable.

    @ laser

    Yes, Daye is my guy and yes he had a second poor shooting game and yes he is not a power forward. But he knows how to box out (maybe the only Piston who does) and he has a sweet stroke and will start hitting those shots. Should CV start? Personally i would rather see Daye with the second unit right now so yes……Cv should start. After seeing Durant i can say that Daye’s ceiling is not that high but i still am convinced that he will be a better player than Orlando’s Lewis. He just needs to keep playing and get more comfortable.

    Gordon has one of the best little up fakes off the dribble that i have ever seen. Knowing his range and how deadly he is from three point land, every defender has to bite on it, and then Ben just goes by them. And if you can compare a long lanky player like Reggie Miller to a muscular Ben Gordon, Gordon throews his shoulder and legs out just like Miller used to do to get that contact and foul call. And Gordon actually plays decent defense as long as his man does not use a screen. But he cannot get around a screen. Always takes the wrong angle and his body just stops when he meets the screener. To compact to slide off i guess. But he must be one of the easiest guys in the league to remove from a pick & roll.

  • Oct 30, 20102:34 pm
    by mrblond


    Good teams don’t play Max as much as he’s played the first two games, and they definitely don’t have him on the floor when you absolutely need a defensive stop.   I don’t blame Max for that play, I blame Kuester for putting him on the floor so damn much.
    I’m digging the team so far, but Kuester’s moves and Joe D’s non moves (can we please just stuff Rip in the trunk of a car and dump it in the river already) are annoying me.

  • Oct 30, 20106:41 pm
    by Laser


    @mrblond: a good team has better options, but you need to platoon max and ben at center for the most part until monroe proves he can provide interior toughness and defense. he’s better served as an energy guy, but ben wallace can’t play the whole game.
    but one thing overall is that i didn’t think “the pistons” were good or encouraging or fun to watch, but certain pistons were at times. make no mistake this still looks like 50 losses waiting to happen, but hopefully some of these pieces perform well enough individually to make them movable.
    also, charlie v will have more chances to do what he almost did last night, AND…
    great point about how likely it probably isn’t that these three key guys have such good games on the same night. should be a rarity, and we still got the L. these individual bits don’t mean much if the team stinks and can’t beat anyone.

  • Jun 14, 201312:40 am
    by Joey


    was at the game. Bad defense

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