Comments on: Did ‘open competition’ for starting positions on the Detroit Pistons materialize in the preseason?

By: Laser

Laser — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 22:16:23 +0000

we’ll see, hayes. wallace broke down at the end of last season playing fewer minutes than that and being a year younger. and i don’t think we can dream of a world where max plays just ten. i don’t see how you can play a frontcourt that doesn’t include one of the two for very long. no combination of monroe/villa/daye is going to be able to stop anyone.

and obviously the jury’s out on t-mac and wilcox. apparently someone on this board saw something from kuester saying he’d play against bigger frontcourts. and how could he not when you look at the alternatives?

as for what you’re supposed to accomplish during the preseason, there are a few things. i think the main thing is to fine tune lineups and rotations. also see who can contribute. but most teams don’t go into a preseason with the kind of question marks this team has. usually teams go into a preseason with a rough idea of who the main contributors will be, and they just have to figure out who’s going to be the supporting players and what their roles will be. nobody knows how these pieces are supposed to fit together here.

what do you think the preseason was for? wasting players’ time? selling a few extra tickets? adding a few extra minutes to everyone’s legs?

and stop with the “you’re a moron!” garbage putting words in my mouth. all i’m saying is that langlois’s JOB is to sugarcoat things. so if he’s willing to admit they accomplished very little in the preseason (the one thing he and i agree on), i’m surprised you maintain that it was a success. you can bet if the team considered it remotely successful, langlois would have had a glowing write-up.

By: Patrick Hayes

Patrick Hayes — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 12:46:55 +0000

@laser:

I don't understand what everyone expected to "learn" from preseason, first of all.

Secondly, as for rotation, I'd guess something like this:

PG: Stuckey 27/Byum 21

SG: Hamilton 22/Gordon 26

SF: Prince 32/Hamilton 10/Gordon or Stuckey 6 (in small lineups until T-Mac plays)

PF: Daye 25/Villanueva 23

C: Wallace 30/Monroe 8/Maxiell 10

Something like that, give or take a couple here or there when guys play well.

As for Wilcox, I don't believe he will play. Just don't see it. Again, just to reiterate, the guy damages the team simply by stepping on the court. Plus/minus is not perfect, but Wilcox was the proud owner of some of the most ridiculous +/- lines I've ever seen last season. So no, I don't believe he's going to play no matter who started at the open practice.

Same with McGrady. I'm not convinced he'll be satisfied coming off the bench for a bad team, even if he himself is pretty bad. At some point, the Pistons are probably going to cut ties with him. I don't know that for sure, but he has a ton of miles and microfracture surgery is not exactly easy for older players who rely on athleticism to bounce back from (ask Penny Hardaway). I would be very, very shocked to see him play much for the Pistons. Maybe they give him a chance initially, but I think it will quickly become apparent that they will be better when he's not on the court.

Stop with the Langlois stuff. It's dumb. "Even Langlois admits this but you can't! You're a moron!" Give me a break. I have differences of opinion with people all the time. My point is simply that I have no real questions about what the team is capable of, what the rotation will look like, who will play and who won't, etc. entering the season.

By: Laser

Laser — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 06:41:06 +0000

sorry, one more thing. this one’s for hayes again: your original assertion was that kuester did a nice job with minutes this preseason. my rebuttal was that he did not and that we accomplished nothing (besides the part about daye being a stud). but your counter to langlois’s own admission that we learned and accomplished very little is that we pared the rotation down to ten…

right. the ten guys who PLAYED AT ALL in the preseason. wilcox and t-mac sat the damn thing out, in case you forgot. and summers has been an absolute lock for the inactive list since he got drafted. so by process of elimination, we’re left with those other ten guys no matter what. at least meet me halfway with shortcomings keith flippin’ langlois is willing to admit!

By: Laser

Laser — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 06:35:05 +0000

@pcb: prince isn’t the best player on the team “besides daye.” he’s the best player on the team “period.” put away your boner and give the kid a chance to play a regular season game for crying out loud.

@hayes: t-mac and wilcox didn’t get to play in the regular season, yet the organization is higher on them than rasheed wallace is right now. wilcox had some amazing camp and was part of the first unit at open practice before injuring himself. t-mac is apparently the steal of the offseason. so i think you’d be nuts to rule these guys out, especially once the losses start to pile up. and even if we were down to the ten guys who will play (and we certainly aren’t), how we use them (and in what combinations) remains a mystery to everyone. read langlois’s blog; injuries kept the team from learning anything except that austin daye is ready. ready to play at the four? i doubt it, but we’ll see. i defy you to give me a fair prediction of how these rotations are going to work out based on this preseason.

@alan: i agree that the PF spot will be a revolving door. i think a lot about this team will be “revolving,” because when you lose as many games as this team’s about to lose, you make adjustments. even if it’s just going from one bad combination to another, like we’ve been doing for the past two seasons straight without an end in sight. the notion that this collection of wing players (and big ben) is going to be a formidable starting five isn’t realistic. and, sadly, as this article so nicely points out, the case could be made that it’s our best option.

@nuetes: i’m not sure whether i’d rather see him play spot minutes as a backup 3 or major minutes at the 4. yes he needs minutes, but i don’t like the idea of risking such a big piece of our future on collecting 30 wins instead of 20.

By: Patrick Hayes

Patrick Hayes — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 03:13:07 +0000

@pcb:

Totally agree. Wilcox can't help them. He hurts the team every time he steps on the floor. They'd be better off playing Villanueva, Monroe or Maxiell in any minutes (if any) Wilcox was slated to receive.

By: detroitpcb

detroitpcb — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 02:48:48 +0000

let us hope that Wilcox does not play against bigger players. Let us hope that Wilcox does not play. period.

By: Patrick Hayes

Patrick Hayes — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 02:05:36 +0000

@nuetes:

Agree 100 percent with everything you said.

And let's not forget: Daye's been a PF/C his entire basketball career pre-Detroit. Now Gonzaga is not a powerhouse by any stretch, but they play solid Division I competition and my guess is that Daye was routinely going against players who were much stronger than him at that level.

By: nuetes

nuetes — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 01:57:28 +0000

Best lineup the Piston could put on the floor might be with Daye at SG right now, and CV at PF.

Prince also said:

“The difference is he’s 21, so he might not feel it right away. He should be all right.”

And that’s the thing. Yes he’s young, but he’s also not coming straight out of high school either. He’s old enough to where you should expect something out of him. He’s not a baby. Injuries aren’t preventable. You might be able to reduce the risk, but you can’t prevent them. I’d rather have him play PF than not play at all. He’s one of the best players on the team get him on the court. Dumars sent out the memo the team is in the market for a big. I doubt anyone calls, but it’s no mystery the team is hurting for front court bodies. Daye is playing PF out of necessity at the moment. I’m fine with that.

By: Alan

Alan — Wed, 27 Oct 2010 01:16:03 +0000

Q won’t start Daye when Detroit is matched up against a ferocious banger like Cousins or Howard. He’s already stated that Wilcox will play against the bigger lineups – not that this produces Ws, but we’re talking about preventing Daye from injury. For the most part, Daye will be forced to guard centers in the Central division – Noah, Verejao, Bogut, & Hibbert. I think Hibbert is too big for Daye. Boguts a big mismatch but more for Andrew’s skills, he’s not a banger. I think Noah and Verejao are more bangers but not very dangerous offensively.

Two other thoughts. First, I think the PF spot will be a revolving door all season-long. So, Daye will the start the season at PF and not necessarily play there for the duration of the season. The same goes for each and every game within the season. Second, just as Jerebko was moved to the 4 upon Tay’s return ,we could see Daye moved to the three if Prince departs.

By: detroitpcb

detroitpcb — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 23:43:15 +0000

With Daye, it is obvious that !) he won the position in training camp 2) the Pistons are a better team when he is on the floor 3) he is a better rebounder than anyone on the Pistons not named Ben Wallace 4) he has to see regular minutes this season

At the two guard which i think would be his best position, he is blocked by Rip and Ben Gordon, and also the lineup when Q slides Stuckey to the two spot and lets Bynum run the point – no minutes there
at the small forward he is blocked by Prince – other than Daye the best player on the team and maybe also by a resurgent T-Mac – no minutes there unless T-Mac is still injured and a bust
So while i share Laser’s concern about the toll playing the four will take on Daye’s body – without a trade, this was the only way the kid would get on the floor for regular minutes.

How it effects his confidence will be interesting to watch. Some people think it might hurt him. If his body holds up, i think his psyche will be fine. It might just toughen him up and turn him into the kind of player you build a franchise around