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Austin Daye appears likely to start Detroit Pistons’ season opener

Last Thursday, Pistons coach John Kuester addressed some of his preseason lineups. Chris Iott of MLive:

How long will the experiment last?

"Through the weekend," he said.

The weekend has come and gone, and Austin Daye is still starting. He started the Pistons’ win over the Wizards last night and had 10 points and four rebounds in 29 minutes.

I think this is Daye’s job to lose. And with only one more game before the preseason opener, he probably doesn’t have time to relinquish it.

Stuckey probably a starter, too, but maybe less likely

Daye’s chief competition, Charlie Villanueva and Greg Monroe, also played against the Wizards, so that makes Daye’s start pretty meaningful.

We didn’t learn quite as much about Stuckey’s starting prospects, because Will Bynum sat out with a sore right hamstring. With 34 points on 18 shots and seven assists, Stuckey certainly played well enough to start.

But that doesn’t mean everything. Iott on last night’s pregame conversation with Kuester:

Kuester downplayed the importance of starting, then brought up — without prompting — how well point guard Rodney Stuckey played Saturday night. Stuckey came off the bench for 25 points, five rebounds and five assists in a 97-94 loss to the Bobcats.

“Starting the game is not always finishing the game and playing quality minutes,” Kuester said. “We saw something in the Charlotte game with Stuckey coming off the bench. He had a wonderful game.”

I still think Stuckey starts. He wants to be a leader, and that’s tougher to do coming off the bench. Starting carries prestige and respect.

For what it’s worth, Stuckey said the right things to Vince Ellis of the Detroit Free Press:

"If I’ve got to come off the bench, I’ll come off the bench," Stuckey said after his best game of the exhibition season.

"I ain’t tripping; whatever it takes to make this team win. If they need me to come off the bench, I’ll do it."

I think there’s about an 85 percent chance Stuckey starts the opener. But what a crazy world where it’s more likely – let’s say 90 percent – Daye is a starter.

62 Comments

  • Oct 20, 20107:17 am
    by detroitpcb

    Reply

    I think Daye is a good choice to start. Between Daye & CV & Monroe, Daye is easily the best rebounder despite his slight frame.

    I look for Stuckey to have a break out year, particularly if he gets time at the two spot. Personally feel that a backcourt of Will & Stuck might be the Pistons best option.

  • Oct 20, 20108:39 am
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    There’s no way Stuckey wants to come off the bench. And if the thought of having to do that motivates him into becoming as aggressive as he’s been the last two games offensively, then good for John Kuester for finally figuring out how to get through to Stuckey.
    I’m not overly enamored with Stuckey’s game, nor do I think he’s a useless player. All I really want to see from him is a consistent effort.

  • Oct 20, 201010:27 am
    by Alan

    Reply

    Another pre-season come and gone.  Three Pistons really stood out this pre-season with their play: Prince, Stuckey, & Wallace.  Daye had a nice pre-season but as a starter he’s going to be asked to do a whole lot more than shoot.  It’s too bad we don’t have another rebounder on this squad because I’m just not sure Daye is ready to start.  As I posted a few days ago, it sure is peculiar of the organization to tell Daye to bulk up to play the 3, meanwhile he will start at the 4. 

    I think Stuckey’s 50 point outburst the last couple of nights should put the kabosh on this “coming of the bench” business. 

  • Oct 20, 201010:46 am
    by detroitpcb

    Reply

    @Alan

    i am also a little worried that playing out of position will hurt Daye’s progress & confidence. He should be playing at the 3 or 2. Moving him to the 4 could have negative effects on his development since he is obviously not strong enough to guard some of the players he will be facing on a nightly basis.

    The problem is really the roster. We do not have a good defensive rebounder other than Ben Wallace. And Daye can rebound (as well as shoot). The good thing is that players develop by getting regular minutes. I am hopeful that even though many of those minutes will come playing out of position this season, that Daye will still use them productively and develop his game, confidence, and consistancy

    Joe needs to make a trade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

  • Oct 20, 201010:56 am
    by nuetes

    Reply

    Stuckey’s last two games have boosted his preseason, but he wasn’t doing very good prior to that. He’s turning it over at an obscene rate. Overall it’s been a productive preseason for him. It sure would be great if he could maintain that 48% shooting. Might have to up my win prediction by a few games if that was the case.
     
    Daye isn’t going to last long at PF, but I like the move because it gets him on the court. It gets him experience and playing time. CV will get a good share of minutes too. Daye will be in foul trouble trying to defend the post in no time. I don’t mind it. Toughen him up and force him to learn how to defend down there. It might help him in the long-run.
     
    In the end I still don’t think the Pistons have enough to compete. The Wiz had a chance to win that game. The Pistons aren’t really playing scrubs like most teams are. Their backups aren’t much worse than their starters. On most nights the worst player they are running out there is Summers, and he’s probably better than most other team’s worst player. Rip isn’t good anymore. I’ve caved on him. Ben Wallace would have to play 40 a night for me to give this team a chance. The front court is lacking badly.

  • Oct 20, 201011:08 am
    by nuetes

    Reply

    Joe does need to make a trade. It’s painful to admit, but Rip and Tay do have to go. Daye should play the 3, and Rip has officially lost it imo. Thing is you can’t just trade Tay by himself because they would have to take a contract in return. They have to find a way to move CV, Rip, or Gordon as well to clear up some cap space, unless Illitch is good with paying the luxury tax next season, or whatever the new CBA entails. How about Josh Smith? Prince/Monroe for Smith? I have no idea. If they don’t make a move they are quite possibly high lottery bound which might be good. It seems they need to make more than one move, they need to make multiple moves in order to be competitive this season without killing the cap in the future.

  • Oct 20, 201011:43 am
    by Alan

    Reply

    There’s a rumor that Denver to the Knicks is heating up because the Knicks feel they’ve found another team that can make a deal work.  Would you guys dump Rip Hamilton to the Nuggets to receive Eddy Curry and his expiring contract?  What about Rip & this season’s 1st rounder for Eddy Curry and Anthony Randolph?

  • Oct 20, 201011:59 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    a few things:
     
    1) i really don’t think daye should start. at all. i don’t think he should log many minutes at power forward . at all. it should be a HIGHLY SITUATIONAL choice. for one thing, he is one of the weakest small forwards in the league. for another thing, anyone think it’s a coincidence that tayshaun went from “ironman” to “ruptured disc” after logging significant time at PF? this kid’s too important. he should barely be playing PF at all. he and charlie do very similar things, and this is one case where EARNING the job doesn’t matter that much to me. kid could be a starter after his preseason, but not at PF. charlie gives up less size and needs to earn his contract. he better get the first crack.
     
    2) on the stuckey-bynum issue. one week ago, in a blog about bynum’s new 3-point shot, keith langlois wrote: “There is little doubt that Rodney Stuckey will be the starter.” there certainly was never any doubt in my mind. then in that one game where bynum started, they didn’t even pair him with rip, a lock for starting SG. then this talk about how stuckey’s production off the bench might have triggered a move, BUT since he was so very good in one (1) game, he really “earned” the spot and “won” the “competition.” eat that up all you want, but i don’t buy it. this is just some crap the pistons spew out to placate disenfranchised fans who want the best for the team but won’t get it. it’s BS and i don’t appreciate it.
     
    3) the story of the game according to laser: on one hand, stuckey shot the ball well and basically carried the offense in a win. on the other hand… (A) yes he was by far the most efficient scorer, but it’s hard to expect the other players to excel when the only point guard available is a shooting guard who won’t stop shooting (even on the occasional night when he makes 13 of them, you don’t really want your PG taking 18 shots), (B) a 7:6 AST-TO ratio is not good or acceptable by any standard. by comparison, tayshaun and vernon hamilton (of all people) combined for a 6:0 ratio, (C) 14 of his 34 points came in the first quarter, the one quarter where the pistons were outscored (coincidence?). and his fourth quarter production totaled two made free throws and a made basket, followed by two of his five misses and a palming turnover before being pulled from a four point game with three minutes to play. oh, and zero assists, (D) is this “stuckey vs. the world” offense a reliable approach? would it EVER work at all against a good team? i sure don’t trust it consistently, and it’s the only offense he knows how to run. we were barely able to scrape by against a very young, raw team playing flip saunders defense.
     
    stuckey does the same things whether he’s starting, coming off the bench, playing the one or the two. he knows how to score. he’s not a good passer. last night he put up a hell of a stat line for a shooting guard, but it was one preseason game against a team that’s as bad as the pistons (which is really saying something). and those turnovers are nuts. this team has a lot of shuffling to do this season. it should have been happening for the past two seasons straight, but we need badly to move around some pieces. charlie, rip and gordon aren’t going anywhere. ever. so it looks like stuckey and tayshaun are left as the movable pieces.

  • Oct 20, 201012:50 pm
    by detroitpcb

    Reply

    @laser

    Rip & Cv need to go – not Stuckey & Tay. Personally think Daye & Stuckey are the best shooting guards on the roster.

    Gorat & Bass for CV & Wilcox.

    Good point about Prince having the ruptured disk after spending significant time at the four.. Playing heavier, stronger players takes a toll on your back. It would be far better if Daye got minutes at the 2 or 3 but that is not going to happen on a regular basis unless there is a trade or an injury. If Daye gets hurt, then i take back everything i said about his getting minutes being more important than the position he gets them at. This kid is the Pistons future and getting him hurt by playing him out of position would be a disaster.

  • Oct 20, 20101:04 pm
    by nuetes

    Reply

    Everybody needs to go, but some of them are unmovable. I honestly think Rip is unmovable. I didn’t, but I’ve delved into his numbers a little more, and I can’t see another team possibly wanting him, even if there was a pick or young player involved as an incentive. If Denver wanted him as was rumored then the Pistons needed to move on that. I don’t know what the return would have been but they are going to get stuck with him for the next 3 years, and that can’t happen. Gordon and CV also have to get moved, but I’m more concerned with Rip, because Gordon and CV can probably still inflate their trade values while Rip’s has a giant tear in it. It’s going down fast and it’s not coming back up.

  • Oct 20, 20101:36 pm
    by Detroit Fan78

    Reply

    well i read your guys comments all the time and have never posted one of my own now i never heard any one say anything about what i feel would be the best trade we could make for both teams. now which team has been tryin to get over the hump for the last few seasons and has a nice big that sits on the bench most of the time? the orlando magic! i really think rip could help them alot and gortat is a nice strong center that we need and from what i understand he is unhappy with his playin time behind howard……why has this trade not been looked into..

  • Oct 20, 20101:44 pm
    by Detroit Fan78

    Reply

    gortat is just the kinda guy we need BIG REBOUNDER that can BLOCK SHOTS…..i feel this is the best trade we could make even if its princes contract that has to go
     

  • Oct 20, 20101:51 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @DetroitFan78:
    Welcome to the comments!
    I am sure the Pistons and every other big man needy team in the league have called Orlando about Gortat. The Magic, however, have no urgency to move him. He’s signed to a reasonable contract and even if he’s slightly unhappy with his role, as long as he’s not being a disruptive force on the team, there’s not much incentive to move him for someone like Hamilton.
    Orlando has Vince Carter, Mikhael Pietrus and J.J. Redick on their wing already. That’s pretty good depth. Other than Dwight Howard, they don’t have much size or rebounding up front, and Gortat is kind of vital to them unless they get a useful big man in return if they were to trade him.

  • Oct 20, 20101:54 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    Something that makes no sense about the “battle” for playing time at the four spot: Charlie Villanueva got in the doghouse last year for poor defense. So … the solution is to play someone at the four in the starting five who’s destined to be even worse defensively? Daye is going to get battered at that position. I want him to get minutes, but man … how is playing out of position going to help him long term?

  • Oct 20, 20102:42 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    @Patrick,
    It’s clear that CV is not a player that Kuester trusts and he never will be.  So long as their both Pistons, CV will come off the bench.  Kuester would rather take a chance on developing Daye into a player he trusts than CV.  Though, I agree with you and I think the 4-spot will be a revolving door.  Daye won’t last 82 games at PF and we’ll probably see 3 or 4 different Pistons start at PF over the course of this season. 

  • Oct 20, 20103:20 pm
    by DoctorDaveT.com

    Reply

    Hey, PP,
    Daye at PF? P – as in “power”? Oh, no….
    And then a quick series of thoughts hit me – Daye would only start at PF on a bad team, or a team with NO talent at PF, or a team that was absolutely desperate, or a team that had major injuries.
    Hmmm. Do any of those fit? Don’t all of them fit?
    Daye at PF is waving a white flag right from the very first start. What’s he weigh, like 105 lbs, wearing a wet terry cloth towel?
    AD has the potential to be a kicking SF or SG – when he gains more muscle weight (someone wrote “fat” would be OK at this point; I’m fat, and let me tell you, it ain’t no competitive advantage…). But he’ll NEVER be a PF – not even on a .500 team – unless he is surrounded by all-star talent.
    Come on, Q, give him the opportunity to excel, not implode.

  • Oct 20, 20103:38 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    @pcb: is there a nice way to say this? i dunno, so here it comes. you can’t possibly be a very smart person. certainly not when it comes to basketball analysis. for someone who spends a fair chunk of time posting on a pistons blog, you’re astonishingly clueless.
     
    for the last time… your fantasy trade of cv and wilcox (a MAJOR liability and a non-factor) for gortat and bass (a HIGHLY sought-after true center and a productive big man) is completely out of the question. ZERO chance it ever happens. charlie v could sprout four extra arms and wings and it won’t happen. STOP “proposing” it. we’ve all seen it, and we all think you’re delusional. absolutely delusional. quit it already. do you want to be taken seriously?
     
    on a similar note, sometimes it helps to read what people who are smarter than you (and this certainly accounts for almost everyone who’s ever posted here) are saying and think about it before blurting out some half-cocked nonsense. when i said that charlie, rip and gordon aren’t going anywhere, it’s because their contracts make them unmovable. nobody would take on these contracts, and they certainly would never send us anything worthwhile in return. these guys are owed a TON of money over the next 3-4 years, and they are not productive enough to warrant that kind of financial commitment. they are all liabilities on our books. please stop annoying everyone with your insane trade fantasies.

  • Oct 20, 20103:43 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    it’s not about who are the best players. it’s about what kind of flexibility we have with these guys and what we can do to improve. stuckey is due for a pay raise, and we can’t afford another $10 million shooting guard. we can’t afford the TWO we already have. and tayshaun’s my favorite basketball player in the world, but we just can’t afford to hand him his last major contract.
     
    so we either (A) overpay these guys and set new standards for financially crippling a franchise, (B) let them walk for nothing at the end of the year, or (C) trade them and get some value to build on. draft picks, cheap young talent, stuff like that.

  • Oct 20, 20103:52 pm
    by nuetes

    Reply

    I vote A, because that seems worst case scenario. Although Dumars did disappoint me over the summer by not spending the MLE, but signing Mcgrady might have even trumped that. He could have gone a step further though. I haven’t given up on Dumars officially running this thing into the ground yet. There is still hope.

  • Oct 20, 20103:56 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    @hayes: my friend, nobody on this team is being put in a position to succeed. perhaps tayshaun, but that’s because he can play almost anywhere and do almost anything.
     
    look at jerebko. one of the reasons i more-or-less rolled my eyes at the PANIC ALARMS when he went down is because he’s a “tweener” forward at best. much more of a natural SF, more comfortable at that position, forced to play slightly out of position because this team is a disaster. there’s just kind of an *eh* feeling to the whole thing. after all, he certainly shouldn’t be the power forward of the future on this or any team, but he was forced there by necessity. daye’s a worse fit, but this organization will try anything as long as it involves shuffling around these mismatched pieces rather than moving them for ones that would actually help.
     
    i just thought about washington earlier today. a year ago they fancied themselves one of the best teams in the east. they were making that one last run with the old crew that always managed to disappoint, they considered themselves deep and loaded. when it all fell apart, they just pulled them damn plug. look at them now. they’re not a good team (heck they got beat by the pistons! imagine the embarrassment), but they have potential and a lot of room to grow. they have some intriguing players, and even with one of the worst contracts in the league (arenas, naturally), they’ve managed a very flexible roster with movable pieces. ONE YEAR LATER. brand new look, bright future. we’re in YEAR THREE with no end in sight!! why is this too much to ask?
     
    that’s why i won’t be around to bother you guys come february if dumars is still trotting out this same sorry team.

  • Oct 20, 20103:59 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    @nuetes: stay tuned, my friend. dumars will shatter all of our hopes sooner or later. it’s only a matter of time.
     
    also, for my money i tend to vote A as well, because it would somehow be worse than letting them get away for nothing. i can see it now: a $50 million perimeter! with a $58 million salary cap. and best of all, it’s not one of the better perimeters in the league. we must all be getting punk’d or something.

  • Oct 20, 20104:02 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    Stuckey is a restricted free agent and Detroit will start off next season paying him the qualifying offer.  We’ll have until, I don’t know, mid-November to sign him or he officially becomes a restricted free agent.  He’s not walking at the end of the season. 

    If we let Prince walk, we have some money (along with Wilcox’s walk) to seriously court some of the Centers available in free agency.  Marc Gasol, Al Horford, Tyson Chandler, etc.

    @ Laser,
    On a side note, Detroit can move an undesireable contract if it gives a nice prize to make it worth a receiving team’s while.  Detroit’s 1st-round pick is a projected lottery – a nice prize.  Curious what you think of jumping in on Denver & NY’s deal for Melo.  See post #7.

  • Oct 20, 20104:32 pm
    by nuetes

    Reply

    @alan-
     
    Stuckey has an $8.3 million cap hold so the Pistons won’t be able to do anything all summer unless he accepts the qualifying offer right away. Can’t wait on him and let all the free agents pass. Have to move quick with Stuckey. Either get him signed or renounce him because that cap hold is going to prevent them from signing anyone. Then again there is always the looming CBA fight, so who knows what the future holds.
     
    As far as the Denver trade – how would you propose the Pistons get involved? Denver wants an expiring, or if not that than a good player. They don’t want Rip if they trade Melo. They have JR Smith and Afflalo at the 2. Could throw Prince in the trade but I don’t know how that would benefit the Pistons unless they were getting a young player in return. The Nuggets would probably like to get Randolph and Gallinari out of it at the least. I don’t see a way the Pistons could get involved and it be desirable all around.

  • Oct 20, 20105:24 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    Interesting about the Cap hold, I didn’t know that – Thanks.  As for Denver, they do NOT want an expiring contract.  They already have JR Smith, Kenyon Martin and Nene coming off the books this season.  They also have a team option on Chauncey and so they are going to lose enought payroll, and talent, as the situation stands. 

    Denver wants a young talent, a provent talent, and two 1st round draft picks.  We can provide them with Hamilton and a first rounder (projected lottery).  I think we can be a good trading partner in this deal.

  • [...] Has Austin Daye nailed down the starting power forward slot in Detroit? That would be exciting–Daye has tremendous potential–but it would also [...]

  • Oct 20, 20106:16 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    @alan: the most important point is that he’s due for a contract extension and a major pay raise soon, and we can’t afford to give it to him. so if we went the qualifying offer route (and you see the potential hazards above), we’re just facing the same situation again. at the moment, he’s a productive wing scorer on his rookie contract, so it’s not like we have to wait until he’s expiring to move him anyways. the point is that if dumars planned on building (at least in part) around stuckey, he shot his own strategy square in the face when he locked up rip and gordon long-term.
     
    also, as for your second point regarding tayshaun, assuming the cap and tax lines don’t move and we let tayshaun walk, you’ve already got something like $52 million committed next year before you extend jerebko (and let summers walk). which puts you in a position to spend EXACTLY the same amount of money on free agents: the mid-level exception. the cap’s a tricky thing. anyhow, letting tayshaun walk gives us exactly ZERO extra dollars to go shopping. so we might as well get something for him, right?
     
    and i want no part of carmelo anthony, because he wants no part of detroit. a rental like him gets us nowhere. so i don’t doubt joe would sell the farm for him. because it would be the worst thing he could possibly do.

  • Oct 20, 20106:20 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    also, on this roster loaded with liabilities and virtually devoid of assets, there are a few things i’d NEVER* part with. greg monroe, austin daye, jonas jerebko and our upcoming first rounder (also it would take a lot to pry away bynum, who’s one of the few rotation guys we have locked up who’s sure to outperform his contract). we’re going to be bad enough this year to get a potential franchise player.
     
    *every man has his price. i sure it would take a HELL of a lot to get one or more of those guys, more than any sane person would offer. sure as heck not a one-year rental of a superstar who will NEVER sign an extension here.

  • Oct 20, 20108:29 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    I like to use hoopshype.com to review the Pistons salary & salary committed situation.  I admitt I don’t know everything about the CBA but I am definitely missing something here.  It appears that we have $43mm or so committed next season so please, if you could, educate me a bit or shoot me a link to clear up my misunderstanding.

  • Oct 20, 20109:02 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    also, let me clear up.  I never wanted Melo.  This was more a way to move Hamilton.

  • Oct 20, 201010:31 pm
    by nuetes

    Reply

    @alan -
     
    try hoopsworld.com, or even better – just scroll up to the top of the page and click on <a href=”http://www.pistonpowered.com/salary-chart/“>salaries</a>.

    looks like somewhere between $45-47 million committed depending on the accuracy of sites. leaves about $10-12 mil. jerebko, stuckey, and prince are note-worthy free agents. if we moved rip for an expiring we might be able to make some noise and entice horford, gasol, oden, or somobody to detroit. that assumes the salary cap doesn’t get changed too drastically in the new CBA.

  • Oct 20, 201010:33 pm
    by nuetes

    Reply

    ha no html. just click on the link in my previous post. they have pretty informative salary info right here.

  • Oct 21, 20101:43 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    so you think denver would go through with a trade that cost them carmelo anthony (an all-star superstar in his prime) for RIP HAMILTON (a shooter on the downside of his career poised to collect almost $40 million over the next three years)?? WTF? who takes a MAJOR asset and flips them for a MAJOR liability? one of the worst contracts in the league, no less! come on, man. think about that. they can get a lot for ‘melo. our lottery pick isn’t going to be enough to get that trade done. not even close. get that ridiculousness out of your head.
     
    as for the cap situation, it’s like this: we have about $43.3 mil guaranteed according too hoopshype. add to that (in rough numbers) $4 m for stuckey’s qualifying offer, $2 m for daye’s team option, $2 m for ben wallace and something like a half mil or $750 k for terrico white (neither of these figures are up there for some reason), plus whatever money we may commit to jerebko and possibly summers. that brings us to the threshhold where we’re roughly the MLE below the cap, which means that’s all we’ve got to spend. sorry for the bad news, but it’s all bad news with this team.
     
    (to be fair, we could theoretically extend tay and stuck and have the same amount to spend, but it would mean we’d committed about $50 million to players who combine to form an average-at-best perimeter. AT BEST. but you saw how far the MLE got us this summer, so you can imagine the talent we’d be able to lure year after year.)

  • Oct 21, 20101:45 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    not to mention that we would be BY FAR the worst taxpaying team in league history, and paying a MASSIVE luxury tax for a WILDLY disappointing team.

  • Oct 21, 20107:07 am
    by detroitpcb

    Reply

    @laser

    The Orlando paper reports that the Magic are looking to trade Bass but the reporter doing the posting says that they will need to package him with another player to get anything significant in return. Maybe they have one of their wings in mind. I personally thought he was refering to Gorat. Orlando only plays him 10 minutes a game while Howard is resting and even if he experimented with the two big man lineup a little in the preseason, Van Gundy is not going to use that lineup in the regular season or the playoffs. That team is built on Howard in the middle surrounded by three point shooters. CV would make a great addition to that team off the bench, particularly if Lewis is having a bad shooting game, or they could move Lewis to the three when Charlie enter the game. And noting the size of the contracts given out this summer. I don’t think either CV or Ben Gordon is untradable. As a matter of fact, their contracts look reasonable. Rip may be another matter. Maybe Orlando stands pat but if they see Miami pulling ahead of them by midseason, i think they will be open to dealing at the trade deadline. And i really don’t expect Dumars to make a move before then, even if i wish he would because of the obvious lack of rebounding on this team.

  • Oct 21, 20108:58 am
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @laser:
    Haha. Mentioning Washington on two threads? I think someone found a new favorite team. They make stupid moves too. Adding Hinrich was a pretty stupid move for a rebuilding team, particularly when taking him for nothing (theoretically) could’ve helped Chicago sign two from the Wade/James/Bosh group and pair them with Noah/Rose to win the East every year. Washington is in a better position cap-wise, but they still make really dumb moves too.
     

  • Oct 21, 20109:05 am
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @PCB:

    I edited a line out of your comment. I think you know why. That’s not how we roll here.

    As for Gortat, yeah, Orlando doesn’t play him much, but if they deal him and Bass and don’t get a serviceable big in return, their frontcourt depth will consist of Daniel Orton, Ryan Anderson and Malik Allen. That’s not good, particularly for a team that fancies itself a title contender and would probably have to deal with the Lakers’ loaded frontcourt if they somehow upset Miami or Boston in the East.

    And there’s no way Orlando would trade big for wing. They have Carter, Redick (signed to a semi-large extension), Pietrus, Quentin Richardson and, when they go big, Rashard Lewis, occupying spots on the perimeter. Hamilton can hit the three, but Orlando’s offense is predicated on filling the perimeter with guys who are absolute knock-down three-point shooters, and I’m not sure Rip fits that bill. Ben Gordon would be an intriguing player for them, but I’m not sure the Pistons would consider trading him yet.

  • Oct 21, 201010:38 am
    by detroitpcb

    Reply

    @patrick

    Cv is not a wing. He is a four. I would be interested in him if I were Orlando. Playing alongside Howard would cover up all of CV’s defensive liabilities. And the attention Howard draws at the offesive end would mean CV would see a steady diet of man defenders with no help. I cannot think of a player on Miami’s roster that can guard CV in space. Which would mean he either gets the open three or can take his man off the dribble. Those are his strong points. You always look to add a player to your team when your existing players and style highlight their strong points and cover up their weakness.

  • Oct 21, 201010:43 am
    by detroitpcb

    Reply

    @Patrick – again

    Do you really think adding Hinrich for nothing was a stupid move? I thought it was a very smart move. Ask Rip what a pesky defender Hinrich is. And should agent zero screw up again, it gives Washington a vet who can give stability to the team on nights when Wall is having a rookie moment.

  • Oct 21, 201010:45 am
    by Alan

    Reply

    @Laser,
    The proposed deal with Denver is not a Detroit/Denver deal, it’s a 3-team deal including NYK.  So, Denver gets Hamilton, 1-st rounder from Detroit (projected lotter), plus Galinari and Turiaf.  Is it fair?  NO!  Do you ever get fair value in return for a superstar?  No.  At the time we traded Grant Hill for Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins it looked like we got dooped.

    Denver is facing a cliff!!  Their superstar has one foot out the door and if they don’t trade him they’ll wind up like CLE & TOR and lose a top-10 player for a trade exception!!!!  Let me type this again…a trade exception!!!  Additionally, 4 of the 5 starters on the Nuggs have the potential to walk at season’s end along with 2 more bench players.  What team can possibly survive losing 6 rotational players?  I think Denver will gladly reunite Billups and Hamilton to become the faces of the franchise in a post-Melo era.  The West got weaker and this backcourt can lead them to a playoff birth. 

    What I like about this deal for Detroit:
    a.) increases PT at SG for Stuckey, Gordon, Daye
    b.) increases cap flexibility to:
    i.) re-sign Stuckey
    ii.) become a player in the FA market for a Center
    iii.) allows us to re-sign Prince – of course he’s a tremendous trade asset but you and I don’t know that the right deal comes along, if it doesn’t, I’d like to have the flexibility to bring him back

    In general, I think its not constructive to speak in absolute terms.  Things like, “I’d never trade our 1st rounder” or “we have to trade Tayshaun” don’t add value to this thread unless we know what we’re getting in return.  It’s possible the ping-pong balls bounce against us and next years 1st rounder never amounts to as much as Anthony Randolph.  It’s possible the best offers we get for Tayshaun fail to improve the Detroit Pistons.

  • Oct 21, 201011:01 am
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @PCB:

    CV is redundant for Orlando. They already have a better version of a tall guy who shoots threes in Rashard Lewis. They also have Ryan Anderson, who is another perimeter-oriented big man.

    On top of that, Lewis makes like $20 million a year. No way they’d add Villanueva’s salary on top of that to fill a role on the team that would be redundant.

    As for Hinrich, yeah, it was a dumb move for Washington. I like Hinrich, but he’s useless on a bad team, plus they traded for him after they already had the No. 1 pick and were clearly taking Wall. They’re also locked into Gil and his unmoveable deal. Hinrich for free would be a great pickup if you’re a pretty good team looking for a defensive-minded veteran combo guard off the bench who can start at either spot in a pinch. If your a crappy rebuilding team who just drafted a stud PG and you have perhaps the only frontcourt in the league softer than Detroit’s and you’re destined to win about 20 games this year? Then no, adding Hinrich and his large salary makes no sense.

  • Oct 21, 201011:18 am
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @PCB:

    “I cannot think of a player on Miami’s roster that can guard CV in space.”

    Uh … LeBron. Or Haslem. Or Bosh. Hell, even Joel Anthony probably could.

  • Oct 21, 201012:02 pm
    by detroitpcb

    Reply

    @Patrick

    leaving out LeBron since he will be occupied elsewhere – Haslem can handle CV down low but not outside. Same for Bosh. CV can take either one of those guys off the dribble. And yes, Orlando has 20 million tied up in Lewis (to their great regret) and probably would not want to add payroll at that position. They also have plenty of money tied up in Carter and probably don’t want to add payroll on the wings either but…………they do want to win and they know they have to beat Miami and i believe they will make a move by the deadline. And if it’s not Carter they are moving, it will be Gorat &/or Bass.

    don’t agree with you on Hinrich. Washington might have a young and soft frontcourt (not sure they are worse than Detroit’s) but Wall and Hinrich give them two tough defenders who can put pressure on the ball and harass shooters. You need a player who sets a tone on your team defensively – like Ben Wallace does for Detroit. Hinrich was always that guy for Chicago. Washington wasn’t getting anybody in free agency anyway and they knew it. So they got a free player – a hard nosed defensive minded combo guard who will set a tone and give them stability. Now as far as Gil’s contract………….

  • Oct 21, 201012:33 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    Haslem and Bosh can’t handle CV on the perimeter? On what planet is Villanueva stronger, more athletic or quicker than either of those guys?

    I think Villanueva could be a fine role player as a sixth man/instant offense guy on a decent team. But don’t overvalue him. He’s not particularly quick or athletic. If Yao is stepping out and guarding him on the perimeter, then yeah, V would blow by him. But there are big men all over the league who can easily step out, guard him to the three-point line and not get beat off the dribble by him.

  • Oct 21, 201012:35 pm
    by nuetes

    Reply

    @pcb -
     
    I don’t know what Orlando is doing. Whatever they are doing it is the wrong thing to do. They have good depth on the perimeter, so unless they are acquiring a player better than what they have it makes no sense to make a trade. Rip is not better than what they have. CV is not better than what they have. I don’t know why Orlando doesn’t go big. They have Gortat, Howard, and Bass. I’d try to add another front court player and force the Heat to score through a forest of trees. Wade and Lebron can’t shoot that well. If I was a Magic fan I’d probably be almost as frustrated as I am being a Piston fan, because they are so close, but they insist on playing 4-1 small ball. Just because Howard can hide another players deficiencies doesn’t mean they actually have to play a player with deficiencies next to him.
     
    I think Howard is the most valuable player in the league. I think I’d take him over Lebron, Durant, or Paul. His impact is huge. Put him on the Pistons and they are a 55-60 win team right now. Put Lebron on the Pistons and they won’t win as many, because the front court would still be slack.
     
    Ok I ranted about the Magic long enough. We don’t have anything they should want.

  • Oct 21, 20101:04 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    @hayes: i don’t think hinrich was a bad signing. apparently they’ve been trying to get ahold of him for years, which i admit is a little weird. i’m not high on the guy, but it’s like this… i think it’s more of a development issue. they liked what he did for the development of derrick rose in chicago, mentoring, playing alongside him, stuff like that. i know it was long before i ever showed up here, but when the chauncey trade went down i didn’t BASH it. i was actually intrigued at the possibilities for iverson and that cap space. but the one concern i voiced to my friends was that i REALLY thought rodney stuckey could use another year under chauncey’s wing. turns out nobody in the world would say i was wrong. that might have actually made all the difference. and i think washington is banking on hinrich making a difference with wall. he’s the franchise, so you may as well bring in a steady, unselfish veteran presence (read: not arenas) to guide him. i thought the pickup made perfect sense.
     
    also, thanks for cutting pcb’s comment that was almost certainly an attack on me.

  • Oct 21, 20101:13 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    also, the reason i’ve been thinking about washington is that i saw a team preview on NBATV that reminded me of LAST year’s preview (which they aired non-stop for months). i was taken aback at how different the previews were. they went from serious title hopefuls (i didn’t think they had a chance, but THEY sure as hell did) to up-and-comers with a bright future. yes, wall is their most important player, but i am just so impressed with what they were able to do in a year’s time. two completely different teams with completely different stories and outlooks in a season’s time! look at us. we’re in year THREE and we’re nowhere near them in moving forward. we’re stuck in neutral/reverse with no visible light at the end of the tunnel. so either (A) they’ve done something truly impressive and amazing and almost unprecedented, or (B) joe has done an astonishingly, unforgivably, inexcusably bad job.
     
    so if i’m making too big of a deal about the wiz, what does that day about us??

  • Oct 21, 20101:17 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    @alan: the point is i would give up NOTHING for carmelo. NOTHING. so he could hang around and win us a handful of games for one season and mess up our draft position? what would a rental of ‘melo accomplish?? he’s NOT signing here, so why rent him? give it up. i like you, but you have to give it up.

  • Oct 21, 20101:22 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    also, denver would rather have a trade exception than rip. count on that. with a trade exception they could acquire an “asset” instead of a “liability.” maybe liability is too soft a word for what rip is now. “one of the worst contracts in the league” sounds better. it’s not going to happen. for some reason everyone seems to think teams want their bad contracts and want to give up major talent in exchange. is this how desperate we are? that we have to fill our heads with fantasies about trades that could never happen in any universe ever?? (gortat and bass for cv and wilcox. ugh.)
     
    and believe it or not, i’m pretty sure we need this year’s choice draft pick more than we need to unload rip.

  • Oct 21, 20101:30 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    five in a row! a new personal record! last one, i promise…
     
    am i the only person around here who thinks about the big picture?? is it THAT outside the box to consider the notion that kirk hinrich wasn’t brought on so that the wizards could have just another “good” guard? granted i think it was in the aforementioned 2010 preview where someone mentioned that as the reason the wiz brought on hinrich was primarily to mentor john wall, but it makes perfect sense. and it’s no stretch at all. if we’d held onto chauncey for one more season there might be no debate whatsoever about the pistons’ point guard situation.
     
    so his contract is too high. it’s better than rip’s, better than gordon’s. hands down. if they didn’t fancy themselves contenders right away (and how could they?) you may as well invest an early $17 mil in your franchise player’s development.

  • Oct 21, 20101:32 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    @Laser,
    You are not reading my posts.  For the third time, I’m not proposing Melo to Detroit.  I’m proposing Detroit be a 3rd team in the Melo to NYK.  In doing so, Detroit can get out of the cap predicament we are in by replacing Hamilton’s committed capital with Curry’s expiring contract.  We have to give up a 1st rounder (which sucks) but we can also nab an Anthony Randolph. 

    Also, Denver doesn’t want a trade exception.  They’re 5 minutes from having $20mm on the payroll, what will they do with a trade exception?  They want a player.  Do they want Rip?  I’m sure there’s better but the Nuggets brass rejected the 4-team deal with new jersey because Kirilenko told them he wouldn’t re-sign long-term.  The Nuggets, along with other pieces, want a proven player who will remain with the organizaiton past this season.  I think Rip fits that bill. 

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