Comments on: It’s probably time for the Detroit Pistons to dump Richard Hamilton http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Sat, 18 May 2013 11:47:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/comment-page-1/#comment-7643 Laser Tue, 07 Sep 2010 22:12:12 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/#comment-7643 wtf is joyce trying to say? proofread please, old friend. wtf is joyce trying to say? proofread please, old friend.

]]> By: Joyce http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/comment-page-1/#comment-7641 Joyce Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:24:20 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/#comment-7641 Trading Rip is not the answer. He was hurt last year so don't act like he is a bad player and he gave everything that he could even being hurt. We do need a real point guard and don't have one. Rodney stuckey is a shooting guard. Terrico could be developed into a shooting guard with his athletic ability. Will Bynum need to play point so we are not desperate to do anything. Starting line up should be, Terrico White , Will Bynum pg, Rip sg,ben gordon sg, Cv at power forward and so on.We should be able to figure who starts and not screw the whole season up trying to find a starting line up. Bynum pg, Trading Rip is not the answer. He was hurt last year so don’t act like he is a bad player and he gave everything that he could even being hurt. We do need a real point guard and don’t have one. Rodney stuckey is a shooting guard. Terrico could be developed into a shooting guard with his athletic ability. Will Bynum need to play point so we are not desperate to do anything. Starting line up should be, Terrico White , Will Bynum pg, Rip sg,ben gordon sg, Cv at power forward and so on.We should be able to figure who starts and not screw the whole season up trying to find a starting line up.
Bynum pg,

]]> By: brgulker http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/comment-page-1/#comment-7640 brgulker Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:50:55 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/#comment-7640 We should have traded Rip a year ago, plain and simple. Extending Rip, signing Gordon, and standing pat was a colossal mistake. We're not going anywhere but the lottery as long as both players remain under contract, precisely because those contracts in tandem take the resources we need to make improvements in other areas. Trade Rip for anything, literally anything. But like others, I'm extraordinarily skeptical that we'll find a taker. Also, like others, I suspect that we'll have to include another young asset. Maybe we luck our way into the 8th seed in a top-heavy conference with this roster. But who cares? I'd rather have a lottery pick, in all honesty. Dumars has made his bed, and now he gets to sleep in it. No Gordon makes a trade unnecessary. BG + Rip likely means giving away a young asset just to get out of Rip's contract. Stupid, stupid, stupid. We should have traded Rip a year ago, plain and simple. Extending Rip, signing Gordon, and standing pat was a colossal mistake. We’re not going anywhere but the lottery as long as both players remain under contract, precisely because those contracts in tandem take the resources we need to make improvements in other areas.
Trade Rip for anything, literally anything. But like others, I’m extraordinarily skeptical that we’ll find a taker. Also, like others, I suspect that we’ll have to include another young asset.
Maybe we luck our way into the 8th seed in a top-heavy conference with this roster. But who cares? I’d rather have a lottery pick, in all honesty. Dumars has made his bed, and now he gets to sleep in it. No Gordon makes a trade unnecessary. BG + Rip likely means giving away a young asset just to get out of Rip’s contract. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/comment-page-1/#comment-7623 Laser Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:34:23 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/#comment-7623 @stephen: get off t-mac's jock already. he's our backup SF, and we don't even know what he's capable of. and stop assuming rip's gone. he's not going anywhere.   @tads: we can probably chalk this up to a miscommunication, but there's a reading comprehension issue at stake. perhaps not entirely your fault, but our wires are getting crossed. the bottom line is that i want rip gone, and i'd do almost anything to get that done, but i don't think it's happening.   when i said, "rip and stuckey for nothing" i was just giving an extreme example of what i'd give up to move him, and what might realistically get a team to take him. because we sure as heck aren't going to dump him alone. you want to get rid of a contract that bad, you have to throw in a sweetener or tow. it basically sounds like we're arguing the same thing in different ways.   the only things i took issue with were: 1) your opinion that t-mac is irrelevant in this situation. i think he's very relevant. it's not like we're just "doing him a favor" and letting him tag along next season and hang out. he's going to play. he's a piston. and 2) that there is any angle to look at rip's semi-guaranteed  contract in a favorable way. that last partially guaranteed year will "save" us money, but it won't make the contract desirable in the least. you won't "swindle" anyone with it. at best he represents $9 million in cap relief, and that's after someone paid him almost $30 million for the next two years. plus there's the little detail that his partially guaranteed money still counts against the cap.   @glstark: your analysis of rip is faulty. the issue is not his injury-shortened season, it's that we have too many shooting guards to be good, and he is the worst fit by a mile. he may be a better defender and passer than gordon, but gordon can create his own shot and has more range. rip needs good screens (like the one sheed and dyess and big ben and even kwame brown used to set) and a good distributor (like chauncey) in order to be most effective. without any of that he's a fish out of water. you people just love ignoring crucial facts and judging everything in a vacuum. "rip's taller! let's keep him!" yuck.   @bg8: whatever reasons you have that bynum NOT playing would somehow be a good thing are certainly invalid. so i'm almost glad you didn't bother to explain them. he's our best PG by a mile, and we just signed him to a 3 year contract. but then again, you think we should keep rip and you think tayshaun should come off the bench behind a completely unknown quantity like t-mac. so nobody's going to take you seriously. god help you. @stephen: get off t-mac’s jock already. he’s our backup SF, and we don’t even know what he’s capable of. and stop assuming rip’s gone. he’s not going anywhere.
 
@tads: we can probably chalk this up to a miscommunication, but there’s a reading comprehension issue at stake. perhaps not entirely your fault, but our wires are getting crossed. the bottom line is that i want rip gone, and i’d do almost anything to get that done, but i don’t think it’s happening.
 
when i said, “rip and stuckey for nothing” i was just giving an extreme example of what i’d give up to move him, and what might realistically get a team to take him. because we sure as heck aren’t going to dump him alone. you want to get rid of a contract that bad, you have to throw in a sweetener or tow. it basically sounds like we’re arguing the same thing in different ways.
 
the only things i took issue with were: 1) your opinion that t-mac is irrelevant in this situation. i think he’s very relevant. it’s not like we’re just “doing him a favor” and letting him tag along next season and hang out. he’s going to play. he’s a piston. and 2) that there is any angle to look at rip’s semi-guaranteed  contract in a favorable way. that last partially guaranteed year will “save” us money, but it won’t make the contract desirable in the least. you won’t “swindle” anyone with it. at best he represents $9 million in cap relief, and that’s after someone paid him almost $30 million for the next two years. plus there’s the little detail that his partially guaranteed money still counts against the cap.
 
@glstark: your analysis of rip is faulty. the issue is not his injury-shortened season, it’s that we have too many shooting guards to be good, and he is the worst fit by a mile. he may be a better defender and passer than gordon, but gordon can create his own shot and has more range. rip needs good screens (like the one sheed and dyess and big ben and even kwame brown used to set) and a good distributor (like chauncey) in order to be most effective. without any of that he’s a fish out of water. you people just love ignoring crucial facts and judging everything in a vacuum. “rip’s taller! let’s keep him!” yuck.
 
@bg8: whatever reasons you have that bynum NOT playing would somehow be a good thing are certainly invalid. so i’m almost glad you didn’t bother to explain them. he’s our best PG by a mile, and we just signed him to a 3 year contract. but then again, you think we should keep rip and you think tayshaun should come off the bench behind a completely unknown quantity like t-mac. so nobody’s going to take you seriously. god help you.

]]> By: bg8 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/comment-page-1/#comment-7619 bg8 Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:09:07 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/#comment-7619 i say we should keep rip. detroit should just start rip at 2 and tmac at 3. prince could come off the bench to play pg, that way, bynum won’t have to play. so starting line up of stuckey, rip, tmac, cv, wallace. bench team of prince, bg, daye/jonas, jonas/maxiel, monroe i think that is pretty good i say we should keep rip.

detroit should just start rip at 2 and tmac at 3. prince could come off the bench to play pg, that way, bynum won’t have to play.
so starting line up of stuckey, rip, tmac, cv, wallace.
bench team of prince, bg, daye/jonas, jonas/maxiel, monroe
i think that is pretty good

]]> By: sop http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/comment-page-1/#comment-7618 sop Sun, 05 Sep 2010 19:50:32 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/#comment-7618 @tads: you said "the Cavs and the Hornets have new GMs that probably want to improve their financial profile" Actually new Cavs GM Chris Grant was quoted this morning as saying that he will be aggressive with the trade exception they have from Lebron and plan to use it by the Trade Deadline at the latest. Here's the article. http://morningjournal.com/articles/2010/09/05/sports/doc4c83150d08a49937144602.txt Secondly, Dell Demps the new Hornets GM pulled the trigger on the deal for Ariza, which added salary and sending Peja for Rip would actually cost less in the short term. @tads: you said “the Cavs and the Hornets have new GMs that probably want to improve their financial profile”
Actually new Cavs GM Chris Grant was quoted this morning as saying that he will be aggressive with the trade exception they have from Lebron and plan to use it by the Trade Deadline at the latest. Here’s the article.
http://morningjournal.com/articles/2010/09/05/sports/doc4c83150d08a49937144602.txt
Secondly, Dell Demps the new Hornets GM pulled the trigger on the deal for Ariza, which added salary and sending Peja for Rip would actually cost less in the short term.

]]> By: glstark http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/comment-page-1/#comment-7615 glstark Sun, 05 Sep 2010 17:37:45 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/#comment-7615 So the Pistons team goes South, and you guys want to dump our talented players.  Gordon may be younger and shoot better 3's, but Hamilton is a consistantly solid PG.  Just because he had a bad injury last year doesn't make him old or used up.  Hamilton is a better defender and distruibutes the ball better than Gordon.  You can seriously go wrong with trading Hamilton, but "Dumping" him would be the worst move possible.  So the Pistons team goes South, and you guys want to dump our talented players.  Gordon may be younger and shoot better 3′s, but Hamilton is a consistantly solid PG.  Just because he had a bad injury last year doesn’t make him old or used up.  Hamilton is a better defender and distruibutes the ball better than Gordon.  You can seriously go wrong with trading Hamilton, but “Dumping” him would be the worst move possible. 

]]> By: tads http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/comment-page-1/#comment-7612 tads Sun, 05 Sep 2010 14:04:05 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/#comment-7612 @laser You were wondering about how my response related to your response.  You started with this:   <em>"@tads: you just don’t get it. your first paragraph makes sense, though i think virtually anything in the world that gets rip off the roster is well worth it. rip and stuckey for nothing? sounds good to me. let’s find a taker!"</em> Basically my reply said that this is impossible, no team will take him.  If you think it is worthwhile for you to imagine any scenario that doesn't involve Rip coming back to Detroit this year, I was asking you to create a potential trade scenario that is realistic in the other teams needs so I can further understand your optimism in moving Rip, and for that matter Patrick. You go on to say a couple things about Tmac that center around the role he will play for this team during this year, my comments were about how Tmac can be expected to just as quickly leave next year and as you say <em>"</em><em>sorry, austin daye and terrico white. nobody knows what we can expect of either of you yet."</em> <em> </em> Then you went on to say some stuff about how Rip's contract can't be viewed as an expiring contract, despite ignorning that it also can't be viewed as full length 12 mil/season contract either.  And while, no, we can't sell it as an expiring contracts lack of full guarantee in the final year might make it easier for us to <em>"swindle" </em>on to another team in the 2011 summer.  But talking about trading Rip next season isn't what this post is about, and I didn't think it was worth commenting on since this whole conversation was about trading Rip immediately. The main point of my response probably come here where you say: <em>"</em><em>and your third paragraph is back to making perfect sense." </em> Which is in response to this: <em>"</em><em>Next season is going to be a hot-ass mess, and while a Rip dump would alleviate that, seems unrealistic to hope for it." </em>Here it seems clear that you think that Rip probably won't be traded, yet in the very start of this post you were looking for a trade for Rip saying <em>"Let's find a taker!" </em>In my response to you I was wonder why you can take a stance against something that you are for? I also don't appreciate you questioning my reading comprehension or other put downs or whatever.  I didn't intend to insult you when I asked you to make trade, if I did, sorry.  Honestly, I would love to see you create the trade for Rip that you think the pistons should urgently do before the season starts, especially given how untradeable that you agree Rip is and how knowledgeable you are about the other teams in the league. @laser You were wondering about how my response related to your response.  You started with this:
 
“@tads: you just don’t get it. your first paragraph makes sense, though i think virtually anything in the world that gets rip off the roster is well worth it. rip and stuckey for nothing? sounds good to me. let’s find a taker!”

Basically my reply said that this is impossible, no team will take him.  If you think it is worthwhile for you to imagine any scenario that doesn’t involve Rip coming back to Detroit this year, I was asking you to create a potential trade scenario that is realistic in the other teams needs so I can further understand your optimism in moving Rip, and for that matter Patrick.

You go on to say a couple things about Tmac that center around the role he will play for this team during this year, my comments were about how Tmac can be expected to just as quickly leave next year and as you say “sorry, austin daye and terrico white. nobody knows what we can expect of either of you yet.”


Then you went on to say some stuff about how Rip’s contract can’t be viewed as an expiring contract, despite ignorning that it also can’t be viewed as full length 12 mil/season contract either.  And while, no, we can’t sell it as an expiring contracts lack of full guarantee in the final year might make it easier for us to “swindle” on to another team in the 2011 summer.  But talking about trading Rip next season isn’t what this post is about, and I didn’t think it was worth commenting on since this whole conversation was about trading Rip immediately.

The main point of my response probably come here where you say: “and your third paragraph is back to making perfect sense.” Which is in response to this: “Next season is going to be a hot-ass mess, and while a Rip dump would alleviate that, seems unrealistic to hope for it.” Here it seems clear that you think that Rip probably won’t be traded, yet in the very start of this post you were looking for a trade for Rip saying “Let’s find a taker!” In my response to you I was wonder why you can take a stance against something that you are for?

I also don’t appreciate you questioning my reading comprehension or other put downs or whatever.  I didn’t intend to insult you when I asked you to make trade, if I did, sorry.  Honestly, I would love to see you create the trade for Rip that you think the pistons should urgently do before the season starts, especially given how untradeable that you agree Rip is and how knowledgeable you are about the other teams in the league.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/comment-page-1/#comment-7611 Stephen Sun, 05 Sep 2010 06:52:51 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/#comment-7611 The Pistons don't trade Prince as he's the only defensive wing they've got,unless the new plan is to just try and outscore everybody. If I may,here's a best case McGrady scenario. And by best case I mean he's healthy enough to play 30min/game and play his way into starting rotation.(And it's a huge whopping what-if I know,and I don't think he needs to be 2002-2005 McGrady,just 2007/8 when the knee first started to fail.) If McGrady can do this,then the whole smalls rotation falls into place-assuming Rip is not playing for Detroit. McGrady under these circumstances would be the de-facto PG and the actual PG would need to be able to do 3 things: 1)Keep the other PG from torching team 2)Make 3s 3)Bring the ball up the court,get the team into sets and then pass it to McGrady. If Gordon can do 1 and 3(and he came into League as a combo Gd and expressed desire to run his own team as a PG once upon a time) Then Gordon,McGrady,Prince starts and Bynum,Stuckey,Daye(or Jerebko) is second unit. Stuckey against other back-up SGs won't have so much of a size issue. Meanwhile Daye is learning from watching and practices how McGrady uses his size to get what he wants. The Pistons don’t trade Prince as he’s the only defensive wing they’ve got,unless the new plan is to just try and outscore everybody.
If I may,here’s a best case McGrady scenario. And by best case I mean he’s healthy enough to play 30min/game and play his way into starting rotation.(And it’s a huge whopping what-if I know,and I don’t think he needs to be 2002-2005 McGrady,just 2007/8 when the knee first started to fail.) If McGrady can do this,then the whole smalls rotation falls into place-assuming Rip is not playing for Detroit.
McGrady under these circumstances would be the de-facto PG and the actual PG would need to be able to do 3 things:
1)Keep the other PG from torching team
2)Make 3s
3)Bring the ball up the court,get the team into sets and then pass it to McGrady.
If Gordon can do 1 and 3(and he came into League as a combo Gd and expressed desire to run his own team as a PG once upon a time) Then Gordon,McGrady,Prince starts and Bynum,Stuckey,Daye(or Jerebko) is second unit. Stuckey against other back-up SGs won’t have so much of a size issue. Meanwhile Daye is learning from watching and practices how McGrady uses his size to get what he wants.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/comment-page-1/#comment-7609 Laser Sun, 05 Sep 2010 06:46:50 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/09/its-probably-time-for-the-detroit-pistons-to-dump-richard-hamilton/#comment-7609 +1. i'll throw in more than that second rounder, too. protected first, terrico white, cash considerations. pick one.   @alan: i just don't think anyone gives you anything for rip ever. and every minute you wait to dump him is more money out of your pocket, minutes taken from guys who represent the future of the team, more time for players and fans to grow more disgruntled, more time passed since this team was relevant or fun to watch. there's plenty to lose.   as far as the urgency to make the move, it's a matter of perspective. i think it's urgent, because 3,4,5 years of losing, being embarrassing and painful to watch is a lot of stress to put on a franchise and fanbase. if there's a decent prospect of improving, a little patience goes a long way. but when that's not realistic you gotta start moving in the right direction as soon as possible. so manu or ray allen or whoever goes down. what are you going to get then? if these teams are picking up rip to make a run, they have to send back a big chunk of salary. and they could do better than rip. this is nuts. i don't know about you guys, but for me it was just not fun to be a pistons fan next season. +1. i’ll throw in more than that second rounder, too. protected first, terrico white, cash considerations. pick one.
 
@alan: i just don’t think anyone gives you anything for rip ever. and every minute you wait to dump him is more money out of your pocket, minutes taken from guys who represent the future of the team, more time for players and fans to grow more disgruntled, more time passed since this team was relevant or fun to watch. there’s plenty to lose.
 
as far as the urgency to make the move, it’s a matter of perspective. i think it’s urgent, because 3,4,5 years of losing, being embarrassing and painful to watch is a lot of stress to put on a franchise and fanbase. if there’s a decent prospect of improving, a little patience goes a long way. but when that’s not realistic you gotta start moving in the right direction as soon as possible. so manu or ray allen or whoever goes down. what are you going to get then? if these teams are picking up rip to make a run, they have to send back a big chunk of salary. and they could do better than rip. this is nuts. i don’t know about you guys, but for me it was just not fun to be a pistons fan next season.

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