Will the Pistons make another roster move before the regular season begins (besides signing Terrico White)?
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Aug 2, 2010 • 11:07 amby brgulker
I hope not. I’d rather save resources for re-upping some of our current players than invest them in any of the players still available via free agency.
A trade would be nice, but I’m guessing it’s unlikely.
Aug 2, 2010 • 12:09 pmby Laser
it says “roster move,” not “sign rubbish free agent.” so you hope so. and i do to. but i voted NO, because i think the writing’s on the wall. this team is going to be BRUTAL.
Aug 2, 2010 • 12:20 pmby Alan
I think Joe D would like to make a move but that means he’ll have to find a trading partner.
“It takes t-t-two, to t-t-tango”
Aug 2, 2010 • 12:44 pmby nuetes
laser – I think that depends on what you would constitute ‘brutal’. Rip, Gordon, and CV all had career worst seasons last year, and Stuckey regressed. Those are 4 of the team’s best players that played horribly. Had Rip, Gordon, and CV performed at their 08-09 levels last season the team would have projected to win 37 games, a 10 win improvement. Had they stayed healthy and performed at those rates the projected wins increases to 40. On top of that if Stuckey would have played as well last year as the previous year the total increases to a 42 win projection (wins produced).
Of course that all assumes these guys can coexist and produce. I suppose the point here is that yes the team is bad, but that would tend to happen to any team where the best players experience significant declines in play. If they revert back to form the Pistons won’t be good, but they won’t be ‘brutal’ either.
Aug 2, 2010 • 1:48 pmby David
Unfortunately Prince’s trade value doesn’t max out until the trade deadline, and the other option is to drop his salary for free agency funds. Thus we have to wait for a move that involves Prince. Hamilton has a bad contract that nobody else wants. The other trade-able assets are for relatively minor dollars or involve totally throwing out the team’s youth and starting completely over. I don’t think Dumars is going to give up on this team and Stuckey just yet. Therefore I don’t anticipate a trade before the deadline.
Reality suggests that the team still needs a superstar to win big. The only way to get one without breaking up the team totally is to lose big and hopefully draft high or to luck into a trade with a team that has thrown in the towel with its current configuration and just wants cap relief.
I think the Pistons are heading towards losing big and drafting high. But the upside is that they seem to be putting together a solid core of young quality support players for when they do land a superstar.
Joe is too much of a winner to be satisfied with just making the playoffs.
People dump on Dumars for Billups, Stuckey and Milicic all the time. But trading Billups did free up the dollars for free agency – unfortunately a weak year with Gordon being best available. Stuckey is better than the fifteenth best player in his draft. Most teams would have drafted Milicic because everybody wanted the next Nowitzki. So a couple of his moves haven’t worked out.
But I think time will prove Dumars right. He’ll nail his next high draft choice and the Pistons will be back in the elite.
Aug 2, 2010 • 2:49 pmby Laser
i’m not assuming these guys can coexist and produce. ben gordon was a waste of time when rip was healthy (as rip would have been had he been the one playing 18 minutes and taking 9 shots). i have no reason to believe stuckey will suddenly be able to run a decent offense, and charlie v is a bum until he proves otherwise. some pistons fans are crazy with the amount of faith they put in these guys.
Aug 2, 2010 • 4:01 pmby Terrico
All our expendable pieces have terrible trade value right now. Might as well wait it out and have Rip, CV, Tay, Gordon, etc, boost their trade value during season, before the deadline.
Dumars wants equal value for the players he trades which will be impossible right now, with the exception of Tayshaun only cuz he’s expiring. I’d trade Rip and next year’s 1st for Okafor
Aug 2, 2010 • 4:16 pmby DoctorDaveT.com
Joe makes a trade if he can. Here’s why:
Current Front Court Rotation: Wallace, Monroe, Villenueva, Maxiell, Jerbko.
This front court is not good enough to compete for a Central Division banner. Maxiell is a disappointment, as is Villenueva (he perhaps might play better if entire team plays better; but he’s not a catalyst; he’s a chameleon).
Current Back Court Rotation: Stuckey, Hamilton, Prince, Gordon, Bynum.
There aren’t enough minutes to keep these guys happy. And when sulking starts, chemistry explodes.
Back of Bench: Daye, White, Summers, Wilcox.
Daye should start pushing for more than garbage minutes; and White’s potential is through-the-roof.
So what happens when you add all of that up? The Pistonis don’t stand pat. You either give up vets and rebuild (which very well could produce an exciting team in 24-36 months), or you sacrifice some potential All-Star youth for one last run (and hope the vets that are left can stay healthy).
I agree with what you’re thinking right now – I don’t like either option, either. But that’s where we are. Joe knows. And Joe knows we know.
If Joe can, he makes a “PR” move to sell tickets. I think he’d like to do that; but he isn’t going to give any vets away now. Once the season begins to degrade (say, in the middle of December), a few tradeable assets increase their value: Prince & Wilcox for expiring contracts, and Hamilton (if he’s healthy: producing points is a bonus).
The downside to Hamilton’s value is too many players at the 2-3 position. Will he get enough touches to establish trade value? Perhaps not. But another GM looking for one last piece will know that. Hamilton’s health will be more important than his stats.
Joe D., I love what you’ve done, but those two contracts from last year are an albatross around your neck. Trading veteran talent for youth is where we are.
Aug 2, 2010 • 4:57 pmby Alan
I’ll throw out this little pizza roll. Joe D talks about Stuckey having been good and becoming good. But can he be great? Sometimes good isn’t good enough. I think Tayshaun’s expiring deal might draw SOME interest, toss in Stuckey and we WILL find a trading partner. Think about getting a player like Andre Iguodola, Omeka Okafor & change, Houston’s got some assets in young talent like Jordan Hill & Knicks picks.
With Bynum locked up, Rodney Stuckey has until this trading deadline to show us he can be GREAT.
Aug 3, 2010 • 5:01 amby Tads
I’m over kidding myself about the Joe D trade.
1) Rip and Tayshaun are still actually useful, just slightly redundant. Tayshaun should be our starter until one of the rookies proves otherwise. Rip might need to go the bench for our line up to make sense matchup wise, but until Gordon knows how to start off a game with the right intensity, he should sit. Our best lineup still involves our two biggest contracts, and we’ve learned (I hope), you shouldn’t trade your best players unless you are very confident the new person will fit.
2) There is no one who wants them. Be really serious with yourselves here internet. If our two swingmen are of any use to anyone it will be a team that is one piece away from winning, right. A young team isn’t going to want to throw Rip or Tayshaun in the mix, a rebuildng team won’t want to waste time wrapping their offense around these two who may be damaged goods in two years. Perhaps a capspace hungry team gives up something for Tayshaun. Well, we don’t want ‘something’ for tayshaun, (he’s not eddy curry), we need a for-real contributor, and these capspace teams are usually short on contributors as it is (they need everyone for their run, or they don’t have anyone because they suck). It’s going to take until at least December for these teams to realize they need one more piece to get them over the top this year, AND be willing to jeopardize their future to get there. The rest of the league is simply not interested.
3)Our player may not even exist. Specifically, we need a 4 or a 5, solid defender, young enough to be around for a while, 6-9 or taller, rebounds and blocks? It’s a pretty short list. And we want people with no injury history, no prohibitive contracts, and are good character people? We’re just as likely to raise this person up through our system then we are to trade for him this off season. Given how few of these people are out there few teams really want to give these kinds of guys up in the first place.
4) Maybe the reason there has been no trade yet, is the ownership situation. Maybe there is already something lined up and we’re waiting on the ownership shoe to drop. Joe D has to run his decisions past someone, and at the moment those people are more concerned with finalizing a sale than making basketball decisions. Trading away one of the best performers may throw a wrench in negotiations, so Joe is forced to sit on his hand.
I’ve come to grips with it, and I’m still really excited about the season. I have a lot of hope in our young bigs, more hope than the free agents bigs we’ve aquired over the years (Mohammed, Brown, Wilcox). If we manage to get solid low post play out of Jerebko, Maxiell, Villanueva, and Monroe, this season will be quite the success.
Aug 3, 2010 • 11:38 amby Laser
i seriously doubt there’s a team in the league that wouldn’t want tayhaun. i bet there’s been no shortage of offers for him, but joe wants to wait until he gets an offer he can’t refuse. and that might be the only issue left where joe and i agree. i would make sure tayshaun gets you some serious loot, because he and stuckey are the only trading chips you’ve got who could get us something nice.
also, thank you to everyone who doesn’t include austin daye in a list of our big men. every time i see someone counting that guy as a four it destroys all credibility. tayshaun’s fifty times sturdier and craftier. his name belongs in the discussion at power forward before daye’s does, and tay’s name does not belong in the discussion.
Aug 3, 2010 • 2:16 pmby Tads
I’m not saying that Tayshaun or Rip are untradeable, I’m saying no one is going to give us a young big for them, here is a list of them. Not with their recent injuries, not with what we aren’t willing to give up, not before the summer is over.
Yes, we might get some draft picks, or even some other expiring contracts, but we aren’t getting anything that will make a long term difference in the organization right now that we can’t get later. So why pull the trigger? We’re not winning the championship this season, so what is the purpose of making our roster really solid for this one season?
If Tayshaun and Rip combined cannot return a young game changing center, we might as well keep them, they are still productive, and they give the young guys something to shoot for this season at least during training camp. Once the season starts, it makes sense to move them, but if not one wants them, you could also let them stay and let the young players earn their time.
Aug 3, 2010 • 9:53 pmby Laser
there are several purposes for solidifying the roster this season: making the games fun to watch, filling seats at the palace, getting people optimistic about the future, starting to reestablish the winning tradition that’s been lost in the past few seasons, halting the team’s backslide to the league’s cellar, bringing respectability back to the team, boosting morale, expanding the roles of the players who are truly the future of the team, starting to build chemistry and develop rotations for the guys who will be here in the future. little stuff like that.
if we could get draft picks or expiring contracts for rip, we probably would have done it by now. and both of those things will make a major difference for the organization. merely eliminating the logjam at SG and getting nothing in return fixes 1/3 of the major problems facing this team (leaving just the holes at PG and PF/C to fill).
the pistons may think they’re preserving some kind of winning tradition in the organization, but the tradition is dead. and they need to start resurrecting it soon. the pistons may have had a good run over most of the decade, but that run is over and that team is a memory. the new tradition is imbalance, an overabundance of perimeter players, shaky point guard play and a piss poor front line. that needs to change, and the sooner the better. if joe waits until rip’s contract has value (read: is expiring), then we’ll have endured four full seasons of non-competitive, passionless, directionless, miserable basketball. that’s almost as long as the stretch where we were in the eastern conference finals every year!
this team will never be successful with this many shooting guards and small forwards playing out of position, struggling to find suitable combinations and keeping everyone happy. getting rid of stuckey or rip or gordon will be its own reward.
Aug 4, 2010 • 1:09 pmby DoctorDaveT.com
Truer words have never been spoken. Consider for a moment who the best players are on this team: Hamilton, Gordon, Stuckey. & Prince. If you put those guys on 4 different teams, they are all probably starting at the same position; or perhaps two different positions. None of them are true point players; they are all really too underweight to play a “3″ (Prince: yeah, I know the championship team had him at “3″ – but did he ever have to play inside with Wallace/Wallace? Nope! He was an extra “2″ playing the “3″ spot); they are all basically “2″ (or “2/3″) players.
Even if Gordon can take an emotional backseat to the other 3 (iffy, in my book), how can you have enough minutes to keep these guys happy? And don’t forget the Ten Million Dollar Man (Bynum), and Daye (who could never play a “4″ unless he gets a body transplant), and White (if he’s talented enough; we know he’s athletic enough).
This team isn’t going anywhere; Rip and/or Prince have to be expendable – and at this point, giving them up for the “player to be named later” (I know – baseball term) would really be the best thing all around.
But then there’s hubris. Dumping anybody is basically an admission of waving the white flag: on this season, on previous personnel decisions, draft choices, etc. Who wants to admit that? That’s why Rip or Prince have to be traded for, and not given away.
When? My guess is January-February, when we’ll all be looking ahead to the 2011 NBA draft. “And with the first selection of the 2011 NBA Draft, the Detroit Pistons select….”
Aug 4, 2010 • 2:27 pmby Laser
“player to be named later” isn’t just a baseball term, it’s a baseball concept. it doesn’t work that way in basketball, since you’ve got to make salaries match. the closest thing the NBA has is conditional draft picks or something.
anyways, yeah, too much perimeter depth is a GOOD thing when you’re decimated by injuries, but a BAD thing when you’ve got nine healthy bodies at just two positions. all these optimists will see what happens. but they’ll probably just find other excuses. “they need time to build chemistry!” ugh.
Aug 4, 2010 • 6:48 pmby Tads
Given that our entire perimeter had injuries or heart conditions last year or in summer league, maybe our depth is good thing? They are all a year older. Even if they are all healthy, I imagine some people will just say they are injured so the young people can play. That season with AI tells me that we have no problem manipulating the injured reserve list, so it is too early to say that people won’t get their time.
Besides, who are we going to trade for? Who is the team that will deliver us the center or point guard of our dreams for Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince months before the season starts? Maybe during the season when people realize their team isn’t strong enough their value will be higher, trading them might make more sense then. No arguments here, we should take our time and get the most out of those two, either trade value, or on the court productivity. But a mid season trade isn’t what this poll is about. As it stands no one is going to give us anything we want for these guys by October, unless I’m mistaken.
Another option is to get no real player now, but instead trade them for capspace or rookies. First off, Tayshaun is capspace. His contract is done at the end of the year, why trade him, or him and wilcox, for more capspace? Don’t forget, when we trade for Capspace we are probably going to get a real live person that will have to sit on the bench, or that Joe will have to convince the owner to buy out. That may result in just as many problems with lineups and the locker room as having Tay and Rip. But these new guys won’t wear the numbers that are on at least half of every piston-jersey-wearing fan that comes to the palace each night. Second off, we get draft picks, so that means next year or the year after that we will have a bunch of young people who need more playing time, and a bunch of older players standing in their way. Sounds like a familiar problem We are back at this same juncture, and if us fans demand the organization trade away productive players to allow the young ones to get their time then we are never going to gel into a core. Then we’re on the treadmill, Detroit Clippers.
I may be wrong, but I am sure that there are definitely reasons why we have not gone and done full-scale roster overload. All I’m saying is a little bit of patience and biding our time may get us a deal we want involving Rip and Tay, and we’ll be glad we decided to wait. Calling for a quick trade so that our roster can look balanced in the short term may be what keeps us from becoming the best we can be in the long term.
Aug 4, 2010 • 7:23 pmby Laser
tads, you’ve got some insane logic going on there. i have no idea what’s going on in your head. let me explain a few things:
1) nobody is faking an injury so other guys can get minutes.
2) if joe has any brains at all (and i still remain unconvinced), he won’t turn tayshaun into cap space. tayshaun has value. he has a sizable expiring contract and is a very valuable and versatile player. if he turns tayshaun into cap space by letting his contract expire someone’s going to set his house on fire. rip, on the other hand, is not an asset on this roster. he is a burden, and if you can turn him into cap space you gotta do it. that contract is murder, and we have too many shooting guards.
3) any player we got in return for rip (and that’s who we’re talking about unloading here) will NOT create the same problem. rip has seniority, is a co-captain, and joe obviously has lots of loyalty to the guy. why else would he pay an old shooting guard 40 million bucks over 3 declining seasons? so rip’s going to play. no matter who we got for him, that player’s not going to push for minutes like rip will. but the bottom line with that player is that he’ll fit in or he won’t. if he doesn’t fit in, he doesn’t play. no matter how bad rip fits whatever system the pistons try to employ, rip will play.
4) tayshaun and rip are completely different cases. we have adequate depth at small forward that we could AFFORD to move him, but his presence isn’t hurting the team. we have TOO MUCH depth for our own good at shooting guard. the situation is going to force us to play guys out of position and in disadvantageous combinations in an attempt to get everyone enough minutes and shots. there’s only 48 minutes for a natural shooting guard, so rip and ben and stuckey in some combination are going to have to get TONS of minutes at point guard and small forward. if we stick with tayshaun, daye and summers can split backup minutes for another year and it’s not a crisis. our overabundance of shooting guards is a major burden.
5) assuming we trade rip and/or tayshaun for young guys for draft picks, we’re not likely to draft a bunch of shooting guards and small forwards to rot on the bench. we’ll probably use the draft picks to pick up point guards and big men, and players at those positions are likely to push for minutes, since those are the positions where we are shallow.
6) there are reasons we have not done a full-scale roster overhaul. joe is certainly waiting for a deal he likes, but the reason he hasn’t found one he likes is that nobody wants the players he’d like to move. he’s handcuffed himself with bad signings and extensions, and he can’t upgrade the roster. he’s unable or unwilling to make a move, but it’s asinine to let him off the hook and say “he’s biding his time. we’ll be glad he waited.” personally, i’d be glad if we didn’t have to worry about waiting. i’d be glad if the players he wanted to move weren’t tied to atrocious contracts that nobody wants to touch. i’d be glad to have even a little bit of flexibility, but we don’t. these awfil contracts are what’s keeping us from being the best we can be.
Aug 5, 2010 • 4:13 amby Tads
Laser, my apologies if my post seems unclear. My largest point circles around the fact that this Poll that we are replying to is about making a move between now and the start of the season. I think we should not make a trade until the season starts because our pieces, Rip and Tay, will have more value then. I’ll address you points one at a time.
1) I really doubt Rip needed to sit out as much as he did these past two seasons. While I can’t say he was told to sit out, I can’t say he was encouraged to sit out, or maybe that he decided on his own to take his sweet time coming back, it just seems a little fishy that dude spent so much time injured. This is injury manipulation is my own, somewhat insane, interpretation of the situation, I guess I’m alone here.
2) So you agree that Tay is valuable, and we don’t need to trade him immediately, but you’re saying Rip’s contract makes him useless to the team. As I said earlier, who could you replace him with? Put yourself in the shoes of a GM of any other team and think of who you would give up to acquire Rip. I imagine it might be a worse player, or a worse contract.
3) Are you saying here that Joe is making a mistake by being loyal to his captain, his teams leading scorer, and a guy who’s number might be retired? Other players notice things like loyalty, and that is what is going to make us a free agent target when we are one piece away. I think a reason why the Lebacle didn’t go to Chicago is because D Wade said they don’t treat their stars well. The loyalty to former stars is one of the reasons why it is much harder to rebuild a team than to build a team.
Anyways, let’s say we trade for… Kenyon martin, Rip and wilcox salaries are close enough, he fills a need. Dude will suck minutes away from Monroe, Jerebko, and CV. He won’t like not playing, or competing and could easily turn every post-game interview into a volcano of chemistry killing negativity and complaints about his role, or his desire to change teams. Meanwhile, Rip fans will wonder why we traded our former captain, former leading scorer, for this overpaid crybaby. Trading Rip might be ugly, and if it is going to be ugly, we might as well save the ugly for just the last half of the season, instead of having it at the beginning of training camp.
4) Like I said earlier, I agree with you that it would favorable for Rip to go. I agree with all your points here, I’d even go so far as to say Tayshaun is more valuable than Rip because Tay’s replacements have less experience than Rip’s.
5) & 6) Joe has not done a full-scale roster overhaul, he has tried to put a halfway decent team on the floor every season, and that is a good thing. While the current roster has plenty of contracts that are hard to work around, I’d rather the team try to carefully work around each contract one piece at a time and try to get back on top slowly. I don’t think we should clear the deck before the season starts just to say we did something this off-season. The pressure to constantly be making roster adjustments just to appear productive could prevent our team from maintaining their drive to win championships.
In the NBA all it takes is one move to turn the whole organization around positively or negatively, I am saying it is better for us to take the time and wait as long as it takes the best move possible.
Aug 5, 2010 • 12:05 pmby Laser
1) nothing fishy about it. dude’s like 32. and he’s an OLD 32, on account of all the postseason games he’s logged. there is no conspiracy theory here. rip is old. he got injured. it takes old people a long time to come back from some injuries. this is a stubborn man who would play 48 minutes of every game if the coach let him. this is the truly crazy part of your post. you have to let this notion go. rip doesn’t care about anyone getting minutes but himself. your theory IS insane, and you ARE alone. nobody else in the world thinks that.
2) honestly, in a worst case scenario, i’d trade rip for eddy curry and a draft pick. curry can not play and his contract expires this season. rip is a burden on both our cap situation and our rotations. i love rip, i really do. but he’s insanely overpaid, he benefits exponentially from playing alongside a solid point guard, and we have too many shooting guards on the roster. between rip and ben gordon, there’s not nearly enough minutes for the two of them to split. so you have to make gordon play the point and/or rip play small forward for significant stretches just to get those two guys enough minutes to keep them happy. and you can forget about stuckey, daye or terrico white playing a second at SG. it is an absolute necessity that this team gets rid of a shooting guard if we want to be any good at all. i’ll take the worse player and worse contract, as long as there’s some built-in advantage, for instance, if the player is less productive but is a PF/C or if the contract is expiring.
3) i’m saying joe made a mistake by giving rip that contract, yes. a major mistake. one of his worst mistakes ever. here’s that insane logic popping up again. first off, no free agents are coming here. not with the current state of the team (and rip is a huge part of the problem here). you can’t throw INSANE contracts at guys, contracts nobody else would touch, in the hopes of enticing other players to come here and be overpaid. it’s bad business. and on top of that, it’s just not worth the investment. there are ways of being loyal without massively overpaying one-dimensional players. there is such a thing as being TOO loyal. this is a business for crying out loud!
ok i don’t want to have to refute your insane logic much longer, but i’ll try once more with the kenyon martin thing. first, let’s get this out of the way. denver’s not giving us kenyon martin for rip. but assuming they did, it’s like this: kenyon martin (when healthy) is a MAJOR frontcourt upgrade. he instantly becomes our best frontcourt player. he probably comes in and starts alongside big ben, and we’d instantly be a much better team. heck, we might even be competitive! he’s not going to “suck” minutes away from monroe and CV and jerebko. as it is, we have the thinnest frontcourt in the league. it’s not like we don’t have enough minutes to go around at the power positions. ben wallace should probably be limited to 25 minutes a night, monroe is a rookie who should probably be eased into game action, CV was so bad last year he couldn’t even stay on the floor (that cat’s gotta EARN his minutes), and jerebko can play SF or PF, so he’ll get his minutes. adding kenyon martin for rip would be a dream come true.
and personally, i’ll take whatever ugliness gives us our full team for a full training camp. rip or not, i’d rather make this trade before camp starts. last year everyone got injured right after camp, the year before that was the chauncey trade right after camp. i’d like to have a full training camp with the guys who will be on the team.
4) tayshaun is more valuable than rip in any manner that value can be measured. he’s younger, bigger, paid less, more versatile, better defender, better playmaker, expiring contract. yes, tay is the better player. but if you think his backups aren’t ready to take over, you can’t have been paying attention to jerebko last season. you can slot that guy right in at SF. and if the organization isn’t comfortable with some combination of daye and summers sharing backup minutes, it’s a reflection on the franchise’s inability to develop and assess talent. from what i’ve seen, i’d be comfortable with it.
5/6) i’m not talking about clearing the deck to say we made a move. i’m talking about trading a player whose contract is a problem and whose presence in the rotation causes problems. why move slowly when we could actually be good next year? not great, but good. there’s a chance we can as long as we don’t have to accommodate all these shooting guards. and take the word championship out of your mouth. that’s just ridiculous. let’s start by playing sensible basketball, which we haven’t done consistently in two seasons.
i salute your patience, but that’s not reality. how long do you think it takes for this organization to become one of the jokes of the NBA, if we aren’t that already? i’d say one more season. two more seasons of this and we’re the timberwolves. i have no interest in watching this team stink forever. i’m not talking about “clearing the deck,” especially since we have a bunch of contracts nobody wants, but we should not wait forever to improve this mess.
Aug 5, 2010 • 4:07 pmby Tads
This is fun, but I think we just have two different viewpoints of what the team should look like for this season. You said “Why move slowly when we could actually be good next year?” which sounds to me like you’re saying we can’t be good next year, that without a move we are destined to be bad. I think we will be good this year without a move. But we won’t be great, we both can agree on that. However, I am of the opinion that next year doesn’t matter that much, where I think you do. You imply, with the “jokes of the NBA” line of reasoning, that winning some league-wide popularity contest is more important than being cautious with our future. Look, we’re the Pistons, we’re always underrated, we always have been, being considered a joke will just make our victories that much sweeter even if they are a little ways off. The only thing important about this season is that we all learn to play with the grit and toughness, and let everybody show the ability to grind out each play, it may not be pretty. As much as you want to say about Rip, and Tay for that matter, he has a body of work that shows that he knows how to “play the right way,” even if you argue that he hasn’t recently. I really believe that his presence at camp will add to maintaining the tone of detroit basketball and be a model for new players. That is more useful just than letting some random dude get acclimated to the team locker room.
1) We did manipulate the injured reserve during the Iverson experiment. We let him claim to have back issues until the end of the season, and then after the season it came out that he basically quit on the team.
2) So with the choice of a worse player, or a worse contract, you’d choose both. The minutes will be impossible to distribute to all the guards, but it’ll make for one hell of a competitive training camp, and it’ll keep us competitive, regardless of minor injuries, in the start of the season. We can get rid of him whenever, but we will start the year more competitive, and hopefully with more of that ‘goin to work’ mentality, than if we had Eddy Curry. And we could still get Curry in february anyways.
3) Rip’s extension was two years ago, I’ll concede that it was bad, what do we do now? Some mistakes you can quickly undo, others you have to live with. Given the market, we’re better off figuring out how to live with it than hurrying up and getting stuck with another, perhaps worse, mistake.
Kenyon Martin is great, but declining, and he leaves in a year. He comes here, changes the whole dynamic in the locker room, leaves 3 or 4 guys fighting for the 20-30 minutes of PF left over. Why did CV spend all this time trying to get better for us to just give up on him? What was the point in developing a All-rookie second team player if we don’t want him to play? If Greg Monroe can be great, why would a year of watching a player, with a skill set he can never emulate, be better than being pressed into duty? Next year what happens when martin leaves? our front court is basically where they are now, but ben is older, CV is depressed and more out of shape, and now we are on our knees begging for one of these guys to come because we can’t develop our own big men.
We may have different ideas of what camp should look like. I imagine you want camp to be a bunch of people who know their role and slowly get into shape. I imagine a camp where people are literally fighting each other for minutes. This might be why you would be for Kenyon Martin in camp and I would be against it.
4) Jerebko is not better than Tayshaun, we shouldn’t be in a rush to get rid of Tayshaun because Jerebko had a good year, especially since that good year was spent playing mostly PF.
5(6) See opening paragraph.
Our team is not a mess, we are one or two moves away from being good, maybe better than good. But there aren’t shortcuts to becoming great.
Aug 5, 2010 • 10:28 pmby Laser
ok, just stay tuned next season and you’ll see how good we can be. i have a hunch we’re going to be brutal.
1) nothing you said has anything to do with rip. i’m not trying to be rude here, but rip did not and would not fake an injury.
2) if i thought there was a chance that we’d play a shooting guard in the shooting guard slot all game long, a small forward at the small forward position, a power forward at power forward, had will bynum start, and did other sensible things with our rotations i think we could put together a mediocre season. but it won’t be like that. stuckey is going to start, he and rip and ben are going to play 30 some minutes each, the rotations are going to be a mess. if we limited rip and ben gordon to 24 minutes apiece and didn’t force anyone to play out of position, we’d have a different set of problems. but as it is, we’re going to be forced to play guys not based on favorable matchups but on making sure all the veterans get enough minutes, no matter which positions they’re forced to play.
and you’re missing my point with eddy curry. it’s about getting a training camp with the players you’re going forward with, not including rip in camp for the sake of internal competition. and i can’t stress this enough, but i don’t think having a team made completely of shooting guards can be competitive. i think we’ll be better off with any two of ben gordon, stuckey and rip than having all three.
3) yes, rip’s contract is a bloody mess. what would i do with it? trade it for anything. i just said so. or trade stuckey to clear room. you can’t win with all these guys.
you lost me with the kenyon martin stuff. he’s a good player, he’d help, we’d be rid of rip, but that trade’s not happening, so why waste time? and nobody’s “giving up” on charlie v. dude’s owed like 30 million bucks. they’re going to play him. i just wouldn’t count on him contributing anything ever. he’ll earn every minute he plays. if you’re counting on him to contribute, you’re in for serious disappointment. and besides, i don’t give a damn how much work he did this summer. he was paying his dues for being a total drag on the team last season.
also, assuming we ever got martin, we have OPTIONS next year. we could, say, extend his contract, trade him at the deadline, execute a aign-and-trade, sign someone else with the mid-level exception. also i imagine we’re trading tayshaun at some point (if joe hasn’t completely lost his mind), so there’s more help. oh, and the draft. chances are we’ll have another lottery pick to pair with monroe. is this enough for you??
4) never said jj was better than tayshaun. never said anything within a mile of that. just said we can afford to move tayshaun, and if you think we’re holding onto tayshaun all year you’re going to be sorely mistaken. he’s too valuable to just let expire.
you seem very happy with what we have. i can’t wait to see the look on your face when you see this team next year. you’re in for a nightmare.
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Read this before voting
1. Ben McLemore
2. Victor Oladipo
3. Otto Porter
4. Trey Burke
5. Nerlens Noel
6. Anthony Bennett
7. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
8. C.J. McCollum
9. Michael Carter-Williams
10. Shabazz Muhammad
11. Cody Zeller
12. Alex Len
13. Dennis Schroeder
14. Sergey Karasev
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