When will Greg Monroe become a regular Pistons starter?
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Aug 29, 2010 • 4:56 amby gmehl1977
Barring any trades you would think the starting 5 going into next year will be:
By mid-season i think you will find that Bynum, Gordon and Monroe will have gotten a chance to start some games but all that depends on what happens with Hamilton and Prince. If Hamilton is moved then you would think that Gordon would get the first chance to start. The other option would be to start Bynum with Stuckey and keep Gordon coming 1st off the bench.
I think Villenueva has by mid-season to prove that he can start otherwise Joe should cut his losses and try and move him with Prince by the deadline.
Aug 29, 2010 • 9:02 amby tads
I think he’ll get some spot starts midseason, maybe when Wallace has to sit out a game. At the least by the end of the season once we’ve clinched either the playoffs or the lottery.
Aug 29, 2010 • 1:59 pmby nuetes
I think the only scenario he becomes a full-time starter this year is if Big Ben goes down with some serious injury. I think he’ll get spot starts because Big Ben might need a break or wear down or get nicked up here and there. If Wallace is healthy I’d expect him to start.
This could also change if we traded for a center. Right now Wallace and Monroe are about all we have for centers. If they pulled off a trade for a reliable center to backup Ben then I could see Monroe getting time at PF and possibly starting there. The center position is too thin right now to let Monroe play PF much.
I agree with gmehl. the lineup for the first game, barring some injury/trade whatever should be:
Aug 29, 2010 • 2:10 pmby Dan Feldman
My apologies to those of you who already voted. The initial poll was poorly worded, and I posted a slightly modified version.
Aug 29, 2010 • 2:11 pmby Dan Feldman
And I feel pretty confident the opening night starters will be:
Aug 29, 2010 • 2:27 pmby Laser
i’m with feldman on the opening day roster. smart money’s on jerebko over charlie. i think ideally charlie starts, but we’re talking about charlie villanueva, so we can throw all “ideals” in a dumpster and set it on fire. also, if he was given the chance to start, his leash won’t be til midseason. at the very least (and this could well be the nicest thing i can say about the organization right now), they’ve demonstrated a willingness to pull the plug on charlie at the drop of a hat. nobody knows if he’ll ever contribute at all ever again? i’d never assume that.
i voted for monroe to start after next season for reasons stated above. we have no depth at center, so monroe can’t play PF unless max is our backup center (red flag #1) and ,thus, we’re playing 11 or 12 deep (red flag #2).
@tads: so, uh, we’re resting ben after clinching a playoff berth. yes, that seems highly likely.
Aug 29, 2010 • 2:55 pmby nuetes
@laser – yes ideally villanueva starts. ideally his offseason workouts and his focus send him to camp as an improved player. thats why i said he should start. ‘should’ i guess is a little vague. he shouldn’t start if he’s not better, but he should be better, so he should start. the jerebko/wallace combo is anemic on offense. and the 2nd group with bynum/gordon/cv/monroe would be downright horrendous on defense. mixing up cv with wallace and jerebko with monroe might be better. same kind of argument there as the stuckey v. bynum debate.
Aug 29, 2010 • 3:10 pmby DoctorDaveT.com
So, who are the “Bigs” on this team? In no particular order: Wallace, Jerebko, Villenueva, Monroe, Wilcox, & Maxiell. Wilcox isn’t going to see much time at all – that leaves the other 5. If you’re starters are Wallace & Jerebko (probable to start the season), there’s not much offense there. Sadly, it looks like Maxy has hit his ceiling of potential (I hate that, by the way – I was hopeful he might pull a Rodman in his hoops growth). Villenueva would be great on a good team – but I don’t see him as an on-court catalyst (I think JoeD regrets this signing…).
The rotation looks like Wallace & Jerebko starting; with Monroe & Villenueva coming off the bench; Maxiell for certain assignments, & Wilcox for 6 extra fouls.
Jereboko’s 2009 #’s – 9 pts & 6 boards a game, with 1/3 block thrown in. Jerebko is probably improving, and more time on the court will probably improve his numbers – both in pure minutes, and simple sophomore improvement.
Wallace’s 2009 #’s – 6 pts & 9 boards a game, with 1+ blocks thrown in for good measure. While I admit he does a lot that can’t be measured, his numbers are going to go backward, not forward.
When Monroe is ready to surpass 6/9/1, are you going to tell me he’s not starting instead of Wallace? My vote is this happens this season – by the All Star break.
Can Ben handle coming off of the bench? Not sure on that, but at this point, you’ve gotta think Monroe is going to both outscore & outrebound Wallace by mid-season.
Now if Jereboko & Monroe can both show some ball? You gotta like the youth on this team – in perhaps 24 months….
Aug 29, 2010 • 11:43 pmby Laser
1) players who don’t dress for games can’t commit fouls, and wilcox is a virtual lock for the inactive list all season long, barring injuries of course. unless the team wants to leave daye inactive all season long.
2) i don’t think anyone doubts monroe could put up better numbers than ben. the question is whether or not he can defend centers. his defense is probably going to have a lot more to do with whether or not he wins the starting job.
3) bold assumption about joe d regretting the villanueva signing. what was it about last year that made you take such a unique and surprising stance?
Aug 30, 2010 • 1:13 amby Patrick Hayes
Wallace’s numbers went forward last season. He was healthy, and he was productive, more productive than he’d been in a couple seasons actually. Monroe won’t rebound or block shots near was well as Wallace this year. Wallace, if healthy, is an absolute lock to start all season.
Aug 30, 2010 • 1:15 amby Patrick Hayes
Why are people so sure Jerebko will start?
I mean, based on last season, I think he’s earned a spot in the rotation and regular minutes all year, but does starting two guys up front who are zeros on offense make much sense?
I think it would be hard to not start Villanueva if he’s healthy, in better shape and has a good camp.
Aug 30, 2010 • 2:38 amby gmehl1977
I think Villanueva paired with Wallace and Monroe paired with Jerebko will work well. Wallace compliments Villanueva on defence and vice versa on offense. From what we have seen of Monroe in summer league he and Jerebko should be able to compliment each other as well. I am really hoping that Monroe and Jerebko can come in and spark the second unit and i wouldn’t be suprised to see the second unit out play the starters on occasions as the talent level between the 2 groups wasn’t that far apart.
Laser that last sentence was a fuse lit for you bud :0)
Aug 30, 2010 • 12:19 pmby nuetes
@gmehl – thats about the same way i feel. in fact if you either started either gordon over rip or bynum over stuckey you could run two lineups out there and just do a full scale change and have virtually no drop off. the first and second units are about identical in talent. the problem is neither unit is that good, but there really isn’t a drop off when the backups come in. now if you ran bynum/gordon/mcgrady/cv/monroe out there as a 2nd unit then you have some serious defensive deficiencies, but if you balanced out the lineups a bit you could run both units out there without much of a drop off.
Aug 30, 2010 • 2:34 pmby Alan
I agree with Patrick that JJ is not a lock to start. JJ has earned minutes and a spot in the rotation. Last season, the starting job of PF was more a failure than anything else, nobody really WON the job. JJ was handed an oppty at SF and made good on it, so Q gave him minutes at the PF spot.
I expect open competition at the PF spot all training camp and I expect nobody will run away with it. That said, I predict Villanueva will get the nod on opening night. He had a very short leash last season and his starting gig only lasted a handful of games to start the year. I expect the leash won’t be any longer this season.
Aug 30, 2010 • 4:10 pmby DoctorDaveT.com
love the site.
@Laser – yessir, I agree with you about Mr. Monroe having to play D. There aren’t any “bubble gum card” stats about team defense other than W-L – and that’s hard to measure for an individual. 2004′s Finals MVP was Ben Wallace, not CB. And I can’t point to a single stat to prove it. But the 2010 Wallace isn’t the 2004 Wallace. There is no more “Fear the ‘Fro” – even Wallace recognizes it. At 6 pts & 9 rbds, Monroe has a real chance to be better than Wallace. By mid-season. But yes – he’s got to play “D”.
@Patrick – “Ball don’t lie” – and neither does the numbers – 9 rebounds a game. OK, maybe Monroe can’t get 9; but are you going to tell me he wouldn’t double Wallace’s scoring & assists (BW had 6pts & 1.5 assists per game last year)?
If Greg can do 12/8/2/1 (pts/rbs/asts/blks) by the middle of the season, he doesn’t take Wallace’s place starting? Or at least – get starter’s minutes? And if a #7 pick can’t get those numbers, something is “Darko wrong”.
If our beloved Pistons are floudering at .500, why would you not put Monroe out there and let him learn OJT? Is Wallace a cornerstone for the next decade? Nope – but Monroe is.
I LOVE it that Wallace is back; but I think you’ve got to see him as a “coach” – attitude, hustle, & work ethic for the young guys. But as far as production goes, I think you may be overestimating him. After all – he almost retired. And doesn’t that mean he’s already tired?
Aug 30, 2010 • 4:13 pmby Adam
The Pistons will be in the same boat as last year if they start JEREBKO… He has no real talent, just hustle. Starting Line up should be:
1. Stuckey/ Bynum/ White
2. Gordon/ Rip/ Daye
3. Prince/ T-mac
4. Charlie V/ Wilcox/ Monroe
5. Wallace/ Max
The Pistons will have a balance team with this line-up. JJ doesnt have the talent for the NBA… just hustle
Aug 30, 2010 • 5:58 pmby Greg
Dumars MUST trade Hamilton otherwise this season will be worst than last also I think Kuester is a joke as a head coach
Aug 30, 2010 • 5:59 pmby Greg
Aug 31, 2010 • 2:04 amby Laser
@doctor dave: uh, i dunno. did you see this team when ben wallace wasn’t on the floor?? this might surprise you and seem literally impossible, but they were actually noticeably worse without him. i think monroe should start at some point, but he won’t start over ben unless he’s become an impact player.
also, starters’ minutes isn’t the discussion here. we can change the discussion if you like, but that’s not the discussion. we’re talking about literally starting. anyone on our front line with a pulse (sorry, villa and wilcox) will be a serious threat to earn starters’ minutes. i’ll be pretty surprised if with his physical tools he’s not playing 30ish minutes a game by season’s end, because it’ll mean he’s so far a bust.
bottom line: you either weren’t paying attention last season (and god, who could blame you?) or you don’t have a good basketball mind (i’m thinking this is more likely), because ben wallace was our mvp last season running away. jerebko gets a nice honorable mention. nobody expected ben to contribute anything, and he blew away all preconceived notions. he stays in phenomenal shape, and monroe should ease the burden on him so he won’t wear down as the season, so i expect him to look a lot like the guy we saw last year. which basically any team would be happy to have.
@adam: i don’t think anyone shares or appreciates your opinion. nobody who knows anything about basketball would agree with your assessment. and your depth chart has chris wilcox’s name on it… ahead of monroe. right. you simply ooze authority.
Aug 31, 2010 • 9:14 amby Adam
@ Laser…. The truth hurts….. I recalled when Wilcox’s was with the Thunder, He gave the pistons hell… When a healthy team, this line have balanced written all over it. JJ has no real talent and from what I hear, he will not see that many minutes this year, unless some one goes down. SORRY…
1. Stuckey/ Bynum/ White
2. Gordon/ Rip/ Daye
3. Prince/ T-mac
4. Charlie V/ Wilcox/ Monroe
5. Wallace/ Max
Aug 31, 2010 • 12:26 pmby nuetes
@adam – laser was a tad harsh but playing wilcox over jerebko or monroe, heck even maxiell, is one of the more absurd recommendations i’ve seen around here. what is your deal with jerebko? he’s not the most talented player, but his energy could be contagious and that’s what your going for. he can hit a 3 and stretch the floor a tad. he’d work well with monroe too because he likes cutting through the lane for easy buckets. wilcox has little shot of seeing the court unless wallace comes down with an injury. the whole thing is unrealistic. everybody understands jerebko is going to play. that is a fact. to even come out with some lineup that excludes him is a joke whether you think he’s talented or not.
i’d be shocked if the front court rotation wasn’t:
wilcox has no business being out there.
Aug 31, 2010 • 2:08 pmby Alan
I also don’t understand the wilcox playing time you are predicting. His contract expires this season and has zero chance of a new one with Detroit, so I don’t expect he’ll see much floor time. I mean, he could show us something but he’s been in the league almost 10 years. He is what he is, an exciting dunker and finisher and not much else.
In contrast, Jerebko is a restricted FA and coming into his 2nd year will have a fair shot at a contract extension, so the Pistons will want to see if there’s room for improvement. Personally, and I like Jerebko, I think he overachieved last season and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see similar or less production, as opposed to more. Even so, I think he belongs in the NBA.
Aug 31, 2010 • 2:09 pmby Adam
@ Nuetes…. I believe Wilcox, when he is on his game, is a better player than JJ… Scoring, Rebounding and Defense. As far as JJ, like I said before, He has no real talent. Now lets look at what the Pistons Bigs can do. Wallace: Defense and Rebounding. CV: Scoring and Rebounding, Max: Rebounding and he can Score, Wilcox: Rebounding and Defense. Monroe: TBA and Last JJ: Hustle.
They will not get far with up him the line up
Aug 31, 2010 • 2:51 pmby nuetes
@ adam – you just said wilcox and defense in the same sentence. wow. look wilcox isn’t really a bad player i always liked him, prior to him landing in detroit. he’s one of those guys that will put up numbers if given minutes, but he’s a roamer. he’s never where he’s supposed to be on the court. i don’t think coaches take kindly to that and that is probably why he’s never been given the minutes. wilcox has a good rebound rate. a high shooting percentage. career per 36 average of 15/9/52%. not bad. but he’s not going to get minutes no matter how bad you want him to and there must be a reason for it.
Aug 31, 2010 • 5:21 pmby Laser
“fair shot” at a contract extension?? it’s a virtual lock!
whether or not you think jerebko is talented, and i haven’t argued his level of talent so far, but he is a good basketball player. he plays good defense, busts his ass all game long, gets to loose balls, he can shoot some 3. and there is a major value in having someone who always seems to be in the right place at the right time. he gets you tons of extra possessions, and he plays harder than anyone except ben. we may have been bad last year, but kuester had a hard time taking jonas off the floor.
he’s got that certain quality that reminds me of luis scola, another guy i’m sure you think shouldn’t be in the nba because he’s not “talented.” i always admired him, the fact that he could play with pretty much anyone and contribute, and he was always in the right place at the right time. rebounds, put-backs, extra possessions. and jonas is like a smaller scola with more shooting range and probably a high ceiling.
i don’t get this blind hatred of him, and it sounds like nobody here agrees with you. a bunch of guys who can’t seem to agree on anything are united against your bogus assessment of the guy. he put up 9 points (without a single play run for him all season) and 6 boards (only big ben wrangled more offensive boards), shooting a very good percentage, with a steal per game while playing good defense and contributing in plenty of intangible ways.
you say cv contributes “scoring and rebounding,” but jerebko outrebounded him (overall and per minute played), and he outscored jj by about two and a half shots while shooting a much worse percentage and stopping nobody whatsoever on defense. and if by your bogus, embarrassing standards maxiell “can score,” obviously you have to say the same about jj. i won’t touch the wilcox-defense thing.
plain and simple, the more you criticize him the dumber you look to everyone here, and the less likely they are to take you seriously in the future. this is pathetic. move on. you’re wrong. what’s the difference if i’m harsh or not? you’re a joke. the only way anyone would ever agree with you is if you create a fake name and post something in your own defense.
Aug 31, 2010 • 5:24 pmby Laser
that third paragraph should say “higher” ceiling. just so i don’t get burned on that. i don’t think jonas’s ceiling is terribly high, but there’s some room for improvement, and i think he’ll be a valuable contributor in the league for a long time.
also forgot to add that he’s putting up 25 and 12 for sweden. yeah it’s international ball, but people got all wet when monroe put up similar numbers in two summer league games.
Aug 31, 2010 • 5:26 pmby Laser
ugh. should also have said “outscored jonas by about two and a half POINTS.” sorry.
Aug 31, 2010 • 6:03 pmby Alan
I wrote “fair shot” not Adam and I qualify that with from Detroit. If the right trade offer comes along and Jerebko needs to be part of the package, he’s gone. That’s all I’m saying, he’s got a fair shot at a contract extension from Detroit be also could be included in a trade. Either way, I fully expect more NBA action from JJ after this season. Also, I think Luis Scola is putting an awful lot of praise on a guy with one year under his belt. A better comparison is Andres Nocioni (IMO).
Aug 31, 2010 • 8:46 pmby Patrick Hayes
Holy wow. Wilcox? He’s 29-years-old. He had about one and a half seasons that can be described as kind of solid. His performance with OKC that you speak of came for a team that won like 20 games and other frontcourt options included guys like Johan Petro, Mouhamad Sene and Robert Swift.
At this point, it’s fair to say Wilcox is not a good NBA player. He’s never appeared particularly interested or hard-working, which is a shame, because size-wise and athleticisim-wise, he has some pretty immense physical gifts.
Jerebko is a smart player who hustles, doesn’t need plays run for him to score and who is a hard-working young guy with upside. I think there’s a chance Jerebko plays fewer minutes this year than he did last season, but if he does, it will have ZERO to do with Chris Wilcox getting playing time.
Aug 31, 2010 • 8:48 pmby Patrick Hayes
I don’t pay as much attention to the counting stats. Wallace’s per-minute rebounding numbers and his total rebound percentage (percentage of available rebounds Wallace grabbed while on the court) were very close to what he averaged during his prime years. On top of that, he is still a great post defender and while he’s not going to score a lot of points, he’s a good passer who moves without the ball and a good offensive rebounder, which is very important considering the Pistons have quite a few guys who hoist from the perimeter with no conscience.
Aug 31, 2010 • 10:51 pmby Nick S
As for a Jonas trade? how about:
Atlanta gets JJ, Stuckey and Prince
Detroit gets Josh Smith and Mike Bibby
Atlanta needs cap space to sign Horford and Jamal Crawford
Aug 31, 2010 • 11:33 pmby nuetes
let’s talk about these stats jerebko is putting up for the swedish national team here. i know it’s the euro championship or whatever but they are eye opening. 25/12 in 33 minutes. not too shabby. but what is most intriguing to me isn’t the scoring or rebounding – he’s dishing out 4.3 assists with only 1.8 turnovers. where is this coming from? yes it’s only euro league, but he’s the best player in the whole league. for being an energy guy that assist/to ratio is looking pretty enticing.
congrats to jonas. but seriously wilcox? wilcox?! no.
Aug 31, 2010 • 11:46 pmby Patrick Hayes
I’d love that trade for Detroit, but Smith is Atlanta’s best player. They have Joe Johnson signed at SG making about 80 billion a year, so Crawford is superfluous. I agree they have to sign Horford, but I think if they needed to clear money to do it they’d simply let Crawford next year or maybe try and dump Marvin Williams.
Smith is perhaps the most underrated player in the league, one of the top defenders and he stopped shooting threes last year, so he was really efficient offensively.
Aug 31, 2010 • 11:48 pmby Patrick Hayes
I think Jerebko has a skillset to be a better offensive player. He’s athletic, fearless, can finish and can shoot. He’ll never be a huge scorer in the NBA, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to imagine him averaging 13 or 14 points and a few assists per game at the NBA level by the time he hits his prime.
Sep 1, 2010 • 12:21 amby Laser
look at this, guys. we’re all united against one idiot who isn’t me. isn’t it beautiful?
Sep 1, 2010 • 4:09 pmby Adam
@ Nick S…. I love that trade, but Bibby is getting older… So giving up Stuckey is to much. I would give Rip, Tay, JJ and Max for Crawford and Josh Smith.
Sep 1, 2010 • 8:59 pmby Laser
hey, waste of time– er, adam: 1) the hawks just gave joe johnson, a shooting guard, one of the very worst contracts in NBA history, so they miiiiight just want to pass on the financial commitment tied to an old fogey like rip who plays the same position. i mean, $30 million worth of shooting guards? who do you think the hawks are, the pistons?? 2) every other reason atlanta would never make that trade.
come on, man. josh smith is probably their best player, and crawford is right up there too, along with johnson and al horford. so they’re trading a high-flying, skilled big man (one of the best in the league) who’s locked up at a very reasonable price for three years, and the sixth man of the year for: 1) virtually the same size expiring contract as crawford’s in tayshaun, 2) the albatross that is rip’s contract, certainly among the very worst contracts in the league, 3) maxiell, who isn’t a starter and is on a contract that, whether “bad” or not, certainly isn’t a “value,” and 4) jj, who’s nice.
so this middle market team, who struggles to sell tickets even when they’re highly competitive and fun to watch, is going to simultaneously downgrade the team AND sacrifice all financial flexibility in one fell swoop? who do you think the hawks are, the pistons?? oh wait, i said that already. ok you get the point. …well you probably don’t, but i sure drove it home nicely.
Sep 2, 2010 • 11:23 amby Laser
i take it back. i think “middle market” is probably rather generous for the hawks.
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