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My guess is the Pistons will inquire about Carmelo Anthony’s availability

When the Pistons traded Chauncey Billups to the Nuggets, the rumor was they asked for Carmelo Anthony before settling on Allen Iverson. With ESPN’s Ric Bucher reporting a Melo-Nuggets split is inevitable, my guess is Joe Dumars will make a play for Melo.

Jeremy Wagner of Roundball Mining Company solicited offers for Melo and ranked them. On behalf of the Pistons, Patrick and I offered Tayshaun Prince, Rodney Stuckey, Austin Daye and a lottery-protected first-round pick.

The Pistons offer didn’t entice Wagner, as he put it in the win-later category and wrote:

Prince is a decent player, but I am not sure how Stuckey would fit in Denver and Daye is a long way from contributing. If the first round pick was not lottery protected this trade would be more appealing, but it is difficult to fault Dan for not making a better offer when there is no chance Carmelo stays in Detroit after this season.

I didn’t expect Wagner to love that offer, but we couldn’t justify the Pistons giving up more because it’s likely Melo would leave Detroit after the season.

Is there a reasonable offer for Melo you think the Pistons could make?

52 Comments

  • Aug 20, 20107:05 pm
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    I recently posted the below trade and have a gut feeling Joe might consider it too.
    I really cannot envision Anthony wanting to come to Detroit but i could see Billups wanting out if Anthony does gets traded. If Denver looks to rebuild with expiring contracts once Anthony is gone we could offer them Prince for Billups. It works with trade machine.
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=32fp5sc
    The other guy to go after would be Nene for Prince.
    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ep327
    Either move solves one of our holes. Obviously Stuckey goes back to SG and Hamilton becomes even more expendable. I don’t care if anyone laughs at this proposal but if the opportunity was to present itself then i would hope Joe at least looked into it.

  • Aug 20, 20108:25 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    1. nothing makes rip “more” expendable right now. his expandability is at critical mass, in that the team is actually better off without him. it’s not humanly possible to make rip “more” expendable.
     
    2. i wouldn’t trade an asset for ‘melo. the nuggz want rip, he’s theirs. other than that, you’re mental if you give up anything for this kind of rental when you ain’t winning SH!T anyways. t-mac takes care of the “nobody’s talking about the pistons” nonsense, so there’s no point in borrowing ‘melo. still, i bet joe has put together as tempting a package as he can to try to ruin the team in order to sell tickets now.

  • Aug 20, 201011:01 pm
    by Jared DetroitRed

    Reply

    Joe D makes no deal for Melo period unless he signs a ext…….
    With that deal signed, we send RIP, PRince, Daye, and JJ for Melo ( You cant have Stucky)..
    N.O. , NY, Chi non of  them can make a better offer then that.. NJ can get close but no ones proven besides Harris and they got Lawson…
    The Denver Piston will still be good to me… Billups, Rip, Prince, Martin, NeNe and Daye and JJ are very good young talents and Dayes Summer league was very good….

    With this deal would CP3 become a option?

  • Aug 21, 201011:58 am
    by nuetes

    Reply

    what ‘assets’ do the pistons have? who besides monroe could the pistons give up that would be a detriment to the future of the team? nobody. i wouldn’t care if they traded the whole team for melo and then melo walked. at least you get a blank slate to start over with. i highly doubt the pistons will be contending for anything with stuckey, gordon, and cv as centerpieces. they shouldn’t be a afraid to trade anyone except monroe. and that draft pick would have to be lottery protected.
    still i doubt the pistons have the assets to get melo, because well, they have very few assets. other teams would be reluctant to part with much as well, but the teams that could get him long-term could likely put together a package better than that. i’d rather go after nene if the nuggets have a fire sale.

  • Aug 21, 201012:12 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @Laser: “I hate this team so much and everyone is terrible and Joe D is washed up and I can’t stop myself from posting the SAME  EXACT COMMENT thousands of times.” Get some new material bro. Or find a new team. It’s not worth the anger you put yourself through.
    @nuetes: The Pistons have plenty of assets. Expiring deals for Prince/Wilcox for starters. Young players with cheap contracts — Monroe, Daye, Jerebko, Summers, Stuckey. Draft picks, including one next year that could be in the lottery again if the team doesn’t improve. The Pistons won’t move him, but teams will call and make offers for Ben Wallace. Bynum’s a reasonable contract at $3 million a year. Maxiell’s contract isn’t even terrible at $5ish a year if he plays like he did two seasons ago. Hell, I’d say even McGrady’s deal is an asset if he’s productive. If he can still play, and the Pistons don’t win, a team would definitely try to trade for him at the deadline. Any of those pieces could be moved for other useful pieces if the Pistons desired.
    They have three bad contracts right now — Rip, Gordon, Villanueva. They have injury questions for sure. They have chemistry/playing time questions for sure. But they are not completely devoid of assets by any stretch.
    And as for Denver, no way they trade Nene, fire sale or not. He’s young and he’s one of the most active bigs in the league, signed to a reasonable contract. Zero chance the Pistons could get him without sending Monroe back, and if they have to do that, what’s the point?

  • Aug 21, 20103:17 pm
    by nuetes

    Reply

    when i say no assets i mean none that they can’t afford to lose. every guy on the team is expendable to some extent. but if i view them as expendable who views them as desirable? thats the key. as far as nene i don’t think they would want to move him, but he has an opt-out in his contract at the end of the year and if the nuggets fall apart he might be bolting and they’ll get no return on him. he’s in the same situation as melo i believe.
    ok. max/cv/rip for jrsmith/martin. thats my offer to denver.

  • Aug 21, 20104:22 pm
    by frankie d

    Reply

    leave melo alone.
    he’s not worth the trouble.
    obviously, he has a game plan in mind, and the idea of mortgaging your team for a rental player makes no sense.   let me repeat that, it makes no sense whatsoever.
    it doesn’t even make sense to trade tay and daye and anything for him.  certainly not a lottery pick.
    for a guy who is only going to be here for one year?
    i’d trade rip and tay and maybe a couple of seconds for him, but i would not let go of a younger player or a high draft choice.  again, the question is, why?
    the pistons need to let go of the 2003 draft.  joe blew it.  he should have drafted melo – or wade – back then.  his failure to do so is directly responsible for the team’s plight now.  flailing around, trying to rectify the problem by trading all of your assets for melo, will only make the situation worse.
     

  • Aug 21, 20109:49 pm
    by DoctorDaveT.com

    Reply

    Hey, PP,
    Anthony is a great player; is he a great teammate? I’m not so sure about that.
    Second problem is his position: 2-3 players are the most abundant in the league. Too short for power forward? Too slow for point guard? Make him a 2-3!
    This is where the glut already is for us: Prince, Hamilton, Gordon, Stuckey, Daye, White – and oh yeah, this new guy called TMac…. Those guys are already your 2-3 players (I know Stuckey will play the “1″, but he’s really a “2″). Unless you’re shipping three of those out, bringing ‘Melo to Detroit (for one year or five years) doesn’t make any sense. And if you ship 3 of them out for ‘Melo – there’s still 5 guys to play the 2-3 position!
    To me, JoeD is collecting trading cards. And what he’s after isn’t another 2-3. He’s gotta be after a “1″ or a “5″. Nothing else makes good sense – unless you’re just shuffling pieces around a game board.
    I know there are some who think that’s all JoeD is doing; I’m not in that crowd. JoeD, you gotta pass on ‘Melo. He’s not a short or a long term answer in Detroit.

  • Aug 22, 20103:31 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    whatever, hayes. haters gonna hate. i won’t stop hating on the pistons, i won’t try to stop you hating on me.
     
    also, some people need things spelled out for them. the guy who posted first here must never have read anything i’ve written, because he intimated that there are ways to increase rip’s expendability.

  • Aug 22, 20104:11 am
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    Laser i would be the first guy your talking about and you definitely don’t need to spell anything out for me. I now exactly what your like and i am sure Patrick, Dan and most guys that comment here would agree that you are just a big old a**hole. You are one of those people in life that whinge and whine about everything just for the sake of it. It wouldn’t matter if Joe traded for LeBron, Wade and Bosh because you would still manage to find something to whine about. What Patrick was saying and i am in total agreement  with is ‘why don’t you just find another team to root for’. I mean no one makes you support the pistons so just leave.
    You either need to start cheering up a little bit or start taking your medication bud. Also when you say things like ‘haters gonna hate’ do you think that makes you African American because i have news for you, i doesn’t…it just makes you sound like a wanna be.
    I have vented and feel better now. Don’t hurt me now Laser!

  • Aug 23, 201012:41 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    vent away. that’s what i’ve been doing. odd to bring race into this, but moving on…
     
    give me a pistons team that makes sense and i’m a happy camper. promise. just do it and see how happy i am. i’m not a natural malcontent. if this team was always the kind of joke it is now, i’d never have gotten emotionally invested in the first place. but here we are. give me a big man and a point guard worth a damn and unload some of these damn shooting guards and we’re in business. i’ll be happy as a clam. when the pistons were good i always thought they needed a legitimate backup for tayshaun in order to win more championships, but i didn’t complain about that much. if you’re not complaining about this team right now you’re not a fan, you’re a flag-waver. real fans aren’t satisfied when their team gets run into the ground in front of their eyes.
     
     
    also, obviously at least *some* things need to be spelled out for you, friend. i mean, you said there was a way for rip hamilton to be even more expendable to this team. we could add ray allen and joe johnson and two kobes and it’s not going to make him any more expendable. if you cloned him and had an infinite supply of rip hamiltons it wouldn’t make him more expandable. you could throw him in a dumpster, weld it shut and send it on a rocket ship into the sun, and the pistons are a better team as a result.

  • Aug 23, 20104:15 am
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    Laser i certainatly don’t think Rip is any less expendable now than what he was 12 months ago. You must of read too much into what i said. If you have ever read any of my (some say crazy) trade scenarios either here, mlive, need4sheed or anywhere else you would know that most of those trades if not all of them include Rip. Don’t get me wrong i wouldn’t ever disrepect anything Rip has done while he has been here but i do believe his time passed here probably 12-24 months ago.
     
    The thing i don’t understand about you though Laser is the way you fire barbs at fellow commenters. I mean its not my fault the pistons are in a mess. You seem to get into slanging matches with everyone you exchange comments with. You talk down to people like they are not on your level. I mean i can understand that your frustrated about the state of the pistons and i agree with a lot of your points (not all) but sometimes venting at the wrong people just makes you sound like a grump.
     
    Finally i am definately not a flag waver and i am fully aware of the holes we have at the 1 & 5 positions and the log jam at the 2 & 3. I am under no illusion of how difficult this season is going to be but i promise you one thing Laser, I won’t blame you for it!

  • Aug 23, 20101:13 pm
    by Guy

    Reply

    I just dont see what assets we have to make it happen. We have old wings, they’d want young one’s. Daye, Stuckey – okay. Not much left to keep Melo interested after this year. I dont see how we make this work. I’m not interested in a one-year lease for Melo. But I guess it might be worth rolling the dice and taking a wild chance he might resign.

  • Aug 23, 20102:40 pm
    by nuetes

    Reply

    who needs melo? we have prince! melo is overrated. the only trades i’d make with denver would be for nene, smith, or martin. or obviously lawson.

  • Aug 23, 20103:23 pm
    by Quin

    Reply

    I like Bynum, Gordon, and Jerebko.  I look forward to watching Bynum and Gordon play injury free, and I’m not worried about their defense if we can get energized players in other positions to infect a defensive attitude.  I’m waiting to see what Monroe and Daye can do.  I’m even a little excited about McGrady.

    I expect that Charlie V will contribute no worse than Sheed ever did, but I’m not attached to him (admit it, Sheed was a bum in Detroit).

    Lose: Tayshaun (bum), Maxiell (lacks talent and has a bad attitude), Rip (I like him, but  it’s about time for a change).

  • Aug 23, 20103:25 pm
    by Quin

    Reply

    Oh yeah, and PLEASE get rid of Stuckey.

  • Aug 23, 20103:59 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    buddy, gmehl (how do you pronounce that? like “gmail?”), i’m not blaming anyone. i admit i take this team very personally, and i type freely what’s on my mind. i don’t blame fans for the state of the team, but i get frustrated when people don’t see things that are plainly obvious.
     
    comments like, say, the one quin wrote above irk me to no end, because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. charlie v will likely be worse than sheed ever was, because as much of a bum as he was, he was PASSIONATE at times and played steady post defense. if cv has a better year than sheed’s worst year in detroit (and i’m talking overall contribution, not just stats), i’ll be shocked. and statements like “lose tayshaun, max and rip” reflect ignorance. tayshaun isn’t a bum by a long shot. most would argue he’s one of our best players, if not our best (i vote best). he’s versatile, defends, makes plays. what more do you want? so he’s not always aggressive enough. he’s not a bum. only an idiot would call tayshaun a bum. there, i said it. as for max, i don’t know that he has a “bad attitude,” but what’s wrong with a little edge? the biggest knock on tayshaun is that he doesn’t play with an edge. so how is this a bad thing in max? he may not be one of the more talented players in the league, but he has heart and plays with energy. he’s an overachiever! and with this sorry frontcourt, comprised of a 36 year old (ben), a small forward (jj), a rookie (g-money), a corpse (cv) and a $3m expiring contract (wilcox), maxiell could very well be the surest thing we have going. yes that is a nightmare come true, but that doesn’t make it any less true. and if we could merely “lose” rip, this conversation would be moot.
     
    so i’m always on guard about comments like that. and people who just don’t get it. i may not be able to affect the team directly, but i at least try to get as many fans as i can on the same page.
     
    in your case, you did say: “Obviously Stuckey goes back to SG and Hamilton becomes even more expendable.” that’s the only thing i took issue with. i’m not trying to start or perpetuate a fight here, but the notion that the pistons could do ANYTHING that could make that dude any more expendable is a fantasy. and you clearly stated that there was a way to make him more expendable. i’m not twisting your words.
     
    i’m not mad at you, but you said what you said, and i spoke up about it. it’s not the biggest deal in the world, but the next person who proposes a way to make rip more expendable is going to get an earful from me just like you did. and as sick as people get of me making the same complaints, there’s always a quin who comes along and throws out some useless suggestions.
     
    i wish this team were on a track to SOMETHING, but i don’t see it. and as long as there are pistons fans who are satisfied with the status quo, i’ll be here to explain to them what a nightmare they’re in for this season and in the near future. not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings except joe dumars’s, and he’s not reading this.

  • Aug 23, 20104:01 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    though in qin’s defense, amen to his follow-up.

  • Aug 23, 20109:07 pm
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    Point taken Laser. Maybe to say ‘more expendable’ was the wrong thing to say but to me it is just plain obvious that Rip needs to go. I mean it wouldn’t matter if we had no shooting guards on the roster to me personally i really think Rip needs a total change of scenery to revitalize his career. He is stale here and i really thought the best place for him to have been traded was Minnesota (don’t know what we would of gotten back). With the lack of guards they have i thought he would of fit in well there and he could of shot as much as he liked. I don’t know how his game would of suited the triangle offence Rambis runs but you would think with all the cutting and spacing it creates it would of suited him pretty well. Still we know how that turned out so i won’t continue.
     
    Anyways Laser no hard feelings and i will assure you that i am just as passionate about the pistons as you are. I am sure there will be a lot to get angry about this coming season and if we don’t stay healthy early things will get ugly very quickly.

  • Aug 23, 201010:03 pm
    by The Rake

    Reply

    Believe it or not, your offer is fair for both sides. I would be surprised if that was really made (which it wont be) if Denver didnt seriously consider it.  It helps the Pistons, reunited Tay with CB, but in particular with Denver actively shopping JR Smith, gives them Stuckey as a nice 6th man option (though his game differs from JR, Stuckey is younger, cheaper with better attitude and ceiling).  This isnt really too far off. But of course, Melo aint comin to the D, we know that.

  • Aug 23, 201010:10 pm
    by nuetes

    Reply

    what’s with the rip hate? he’s the pistons all-time leading playoff scorer. part of a championship team. he led them in scoring last season. gordon needs to go. rip can stay.

  • Aug 23, 201010:11 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @Quin:

    “I expect that Charlie V will contribute no worse than Sheed ever did, but I’m not attached to him (admit it, Sheed was a bum in Detroit).”

    Comments like this make it appear as if you know little about the game. Wallace, for a three or four year stretch in Detroit, was one of the top post defenders in the league. Skill-wise, he does things that Charlie V can never even dream of, and he does them out of instinct — never lowering the ball below his chest when he grabs rebounds, throwing perfect outlet passes, having the same release point on his jumper every time … Villanueva does NONE of those things.

    Charlie V can be an effective scorer, and he’s strong enough to become an adequate defender. He’s not an instinctive player, he doesn’t have particularly high basketball IQ and his fundamentals always fluctuate — the release on his jumper is always different, his footwork in the post is often sloppy, he puts the ball down low and gets stripped.

    Sheed’s motivation issues are well-documented. But even a half-hearted Wallace is still a better overall basketball player than Villanueva has been at any point in his career.

    I can understand not liking a player b/c of his poor attitude. I don’t agree with it, but I understand. But I don’t like it when Wallace’s contributions are belittled b/c people don’t like his antics. He was a major reason the Pistons were a model franchise for nearly a decade.

  • Aug 23, 201010:13 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @nuetes:

    The only issue I have with Rip is age. I’m not in the “trade him for the sake of trading him” camp, but if a Rip trade improves the team, they have to do it. Gordon at least has a chance to help the team long-term. Even if Rip comes back healthy, he’s only going to be a semi-productive player for another year or two.

  • Aug 24, 20108:20 am
    by brgulker

    Reply

    IMO, there’s a reason the Nuggets can’t get anywhere in the West. Melo’s a big part of that reason. He and Allen Iverson have the same flaws in their games: they’re little more than empty scorers.
    For all the slips Dumars has made over the past 2 years or so, one that he’s never made is giving max money to a guy who doesn’t deserve max money. Melo’s just that kind of guy, and I hope Joe steers completely clear.

  • Aug 24, 20108:59 am
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @brgulker:
    The difference between Melo and Iverson is that I think Melo actually has the tools to be a good defensive player. He’s arguably physically the strongest SF in the league other than LeBron and he’s really quick. He should be able to be at least adequate defensively if he makes the effort.
    Iverson automatically had a disadvantage b/c he was so small. Even if he cared about being great on defense, people would still be able to post him up and still be able to shoot over him. At his best, all he was ever going to be was a guy who could disrupt the passing lanes, and for a while under Larry Brown, he was very good at that.

  • Aug 24, 201010:02 am
    by Quin

    Reply

    Did you watch the Pistons leading up to their 2004 championship?  If so, you know that their chemistry, hard play, spirit and all that fluffy stuff allowed them to beat better teams.  I was excited about Sheed, but honestly, the Pistons were poised to win with Memo anyway.
    My main point is that lazy players, regardless of talent (bums) lead to lazy and sloppy play that hurts the team overall.  I’m also judging these players based on their responsibility to contribute.  Tayshaun, as the “best” player, has incredible responsibility but almost no voice or leadership ability, which hinders the team due to opportunity cost.
    Sheed had plenty of voice, but unfortunately he was saying the wrong things.  Before Sheed, Ben Wallace was the voice of the team.  After him, the Pistons became whiny, lazy, and self-entitled.  Sheed walked into a championship team, and then proceeded to infect their chemistry with whininess.  Why is this such a bad thing?  Because when you feel sorry for yourself, you hurt the teams ability to “get back up.”  If you’ve been watching, you know that this is exactly what the Pistons have missed the past few years, the ability to get up and take responsibility for how the season turns out without feeling sorry for yourself.

  • Aug 24, 201011:31 am
    by nuetes

    Reply

    We already have a player better than Melo. he’s called Tayshaun. Rip is good. Sheed was great. The man’s basketball IQ and skill was through the roof even if his motivation and attitude were through the floor. No way do we win the championship without Sheed. He was one of the best defensive bigs in the game. Sheed along with Ben formed one of the nastiest defensive front courts ever. He was a smart player, smart enough to know how to have an impact by exerting zero effort, that is a rare skill. CV will never be half the player Sheed was, in fact he might not even be a quarter of the player, ever. Unless he magically develops some basketball IQ, defensive attributes, and learns how to pass the ball at least once per game then sorry CV is the poorest man’s Sheed to ever step foot on an NBA court. Sheed was a gigantic waste of talent, but he certainly wasn’t a bum, at least not until his last season. Sheed at 25% effort was better than CV at 100%.

  • Aug 24, 20102:46 pm
    by Quin

    Reply

    Then how come nobody’s asking for Sheed’s return?  Afterall, he’s talking about retiring.

  • Aug 24, 20103:23 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    because he’s old. and talking retirement. what’s wrong with you, quin?
     
    yeah, sheed was a total deadbeat for his last few years here, but the worst i ever saw sheed play was better than charlie v. both are poster children for wasted talent, but at least sheed had passion and defense.

  • Aug 24, 20103:33 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    @ hayes & nuetes: about rip. his age is one factor, but let’s be realistic here. we have four guards who are good ballhandlers, freelance, create their own shots, and don’t excel at passing (bynum being the best passer of the bunch). and, frankly, that probably goes for terrico white, for all the minutes he won’t play. then we have one guard who isn’t a good ballhandler, operates best within a structured half court system, and needs to be set up for his shots. one of these things is not like the others.
     
    i don’t understand how you can project success for him on this team. take him out of the equation and i think we’ve got a potentially dynamic and intriguing backcourt. rip gums that all up. i know he’s going to be the biggest bitch about his minutes. god knows ben gordon took it in stride when he was relegated to sub-20 minutes off the bench with the team at full strength. t-mac has no right to complain. bynum’s a SOLDIER. and stuckey can’t complain about anything; he’s had a silver spoon since he came into this league. and besides, his attitude’s always been better than his playmaking instincts.

  • Aug 24, 20107:17 pm
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    Quin there is NO WAY we win the championship in 2004 without sheed. He was the final piece to the puzzle or that missing ingredient so to say. Sheed was one of those you have to take the good with the bad. He never complained about lack of shots and was a great defender. He was the guy that let Big Ben roam the paint freely. It is probably safe to say that Ben doesn’t win any DPOY without Sheed next to him (because he didn’t).

  • Aug 24, 20107:18 pm
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    I just read that the Bobcats might be looking to deal Dampier (see story).

    http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68833/20100824/bobcats_will_try_to_deal_dampier/

    They have Nazr Mohammed, DeSagana Diop and now Kwame Brown signed. With Larry Brown at the helm is it possible that eith Prince or Hamilton could be delt there? Both trades work with trade machine. I would rather keep Prince and trade Hamilton but if it took Prince to get Dampier then so be it. How do you guys feel about it?

  • Aug 25, 201012:34 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    @gmehl: brother are you smoking something tonight?? prince for dampier? i’d assassinate dumars and nobody would prosecute me. you trade tayshaun (along with his versatility, length, high basketball IQ, locker room presence, expiring contract) for something that helps this team in the future. young talent, draft picks, something useful, something to potentially build on. he’s one of our best trade assets! and you’re going to trade him for an old, big body?!?!?!?!?!?! are you f*cking kidding me?? you have to be kidding me. you just have to. desperate times, i know, but you think dampier single-handedly makes this team good enough to throw away a top three trade asset?? not even close. i hate this team, and there isn’t much i wouldn’t consider to shake things up, but never in a million years.
     
    rip for dampier and i cry tears of joy. i’ll even throw in something nice like a draft pick or dajuan summers or terrico white as a sort of “thank you” for ridding us of that albatross of a contract. but prince??
     
    sadly you’ve got a lot of work to do to salvage any credibility with anyone around here who knows anything. is it possible to delete comments? i swear to god man. prince for dampier?!?!???!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?! god. shoot me now. how could you even say that?

  • Aug 25, 201012:48 am
    by The Rake

    Reply

    @brgulker
    I always felt that JD not drafting Melo in 04 was justified based on having Prince at the 3.  I agree with the max contract thing, becuz really, there are maybe 5 guys in the league worthy of max deals in my eyes. Max deals cripple franchises, unless they are the Lakers willing to go heavily into the luxury tax threshold to buy their championships.  As for Melo, I liked him at ‘Cuse, but fet okay that we didnt draft him at the time.  4-5 years later I wanted him but thats all hindsight. The question is, is Melo a championship type of player?  Even ‘Bron has that question lingering around him right now, so time will tell.

  • Aug 25, 20101:59 am
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    @Laser
    Yes times are deperate and as you have pointed out many times before the log jam we have at the 2-3 positions. Of coarse i would rather deal Rip for Dampier rather than Prince. Reading my post again it kind of sounds like i am desperate to trade for Dampier which is not the case. I was just throwing around scenarios to see what people thought but i forgot how touchy you get with un-thought through pistons analysis.  In a perfect world we would trade Rip for Dampier and then dangle Prince come the trade deadline.
     
    The question i have for you Laser is this…who do you think Prince is worth trading for? Put aside whether the other team would do the trade but the salaries have to fit within the cap. I just want to get your opinon on who you think Prince could realistically bring us. I am assuming that the trade will be bringing back a center or a power forward otherwise we might as well keep him.
     
    Anyways i just heard the Bobcats will release Dampier if they can’t workout a trade soon. Dampier’s contract has no salary protection so the Bobcats can waive him just prior to the start of the regular season and owe him nothing.

  • Aug 25, 20101:35 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    @gmehl: it didn’t sound like you were desperate to trade for dampier, it sounded like you went temporarily insane! i’ve had a few drinks (maybe smoked a little something) and typed some dumb sh!t on the ‘net, but your trade proposal takes the cake! go on, read it again. it sounds like you’re dead-set on finishing the job joe started when he began to sabotage the team. maybe hayes or feldman will be nice enough to just remove the comment. the fact that that sentence is even sitting out there on the internet at all makes me uncomfortable.
     
    as for your question, it’s tough to play GM in scenarios like this. i don’t know what we could actually get for prince (or rip, stuckey, etc.), so i’m forced to be somewhat vague. the thing i want for prince is something to build on going forward, whether it be young talent (in the form of a PG or big man) or draft picks. i’d take a project big man with a high ceiling who isn’t ready to help yet. the last thing i’d want is a band-aid like dampier whose biggest value is his expiring contract in a year when we’re not winning anything anyways. i have a feeling whoever ends up with tayshaun will pay handsomely and won’t want him just for his expiring contract.
     
    the other last thing i’d want is to “keep him.” i’ve read some blather from jokers who want us to let his contract expire, but these people have no idea what they’re talking about. (i feel like there should be a basketball IQ test you must first pass before posting on a message board or blog like this to prevent idiots from proposing things that are objectively misguided.) even if tayshaun and wilcox expired, we wouldn’t have enough money to do anything in free agency. the only thing that accomplishes is saves money for whoever owns the team, and i don’t understand why any fan would favor cutting payroll to the detriment of the team. to pad the wallet of millionaires?? what kind of fans are these? i assume those people think we’d have $14 million to play with (and i’ve read statements saying as much in plain english), but that’s not the case. i’m not going to do the math, but we’d have to move another huge as well to add an impact free agent. i don’t know how well you remember 2008 (so close, yet so very far away), but with a similar payroll to what we have now we had to renounce our rights to about $36 million in salaries (iverson and sheed) in order to free up less than $20 million to waste on gordon and villanueva. if we just let prince and wilcox expire, all we have to spend is STILL the midlevel exception.
     
    i read the same thing about dampier, and it seems like charlotte’s leaning towards just waiving the guy. i didn’t know dampier’s contract was not guaranteed AT ALL. hoopshype, whom i usually reference for salary info, has it as fully guaranteed, and i know that’s not right. but if it’s 0% guaranteed, i don’t know why anyone would pay him to play. i mean, hey, maybe we would. but anyone else? i dunno.
     
    so yeah, sorry i can’t propose anything concrete for prince. but suffice it to say, if it’s attractive draft picks that’s fine. better than a band-aid. last thing we need right now is a band-aid.

  • Aug 25, 20107:14 pm
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    @Laser
    I can see you and myself are going to have a lot of fun this coming season. The reason i asked you the question is because i actually wanted some players names. It’s not as easy you think on who we could get for Prince. I totally understand that if we let Prince expire we wont gain any extra cap space and i am sure all the other teams GMs in the league know this too and will try to make Joe sweat as long as they can before they offer anything for Prince (and Rip) that is worth considering. Unless you have a current all-star caliber player you are trading, then most of the time you will not get back full value for the player you are trading. Hopefully you are right and Prince can bring us a project big or pg with upside. I am not holding my breath and one thing i do know is that going into this season with Prince, Jeberko, McGrady, Daye & Summers who a SF and with Hamilton, Gordon, Stuckey, Bynum & White who are SG might need one of those give some to get some moves. Yeah we might not end up getting full value for Prince and Rip…that is the stone cold reality of the situation.

  • Aug 25, 20109:41 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    you’ll never get anything for rip aside from “cap relief,” and that’s if you’re lucky. thing is, he’s got two guaranteed years at an astronomical salary he’s incapable of earning, and the last year is partially guaranteed. so by the time he’s expiring, you’ve either fully guaranteed that contract (so we’re talking almost $13 million for a 35 year old mid-range shooter), and worse, you’ve got him hanging around your neck for three more years! or you’ve moved him before that last year is fully guaranteed, in which case he represents something like $9 million in cap relief. and i don’t think the return for $9 million in cap relief is going to be CLOSE to warranting the number of years you’re stuck with this guy. so you’ll never, ever get anything for him ever. best you can hope is that some team wants him at all.
     
    as for player names, i wish i could fire some off. i’d have to know who was available. hasheem thabeet? sure. cole aldrich? sure. joel pryzbilla? no. one protected but favorable first round pick is probably the bare minimum i’d take. or a rotation staple at PG or one of the power positions. ty lawson, darren collison, probably ed davis. and obviously with all these young guys we end up with some dead money contracts, too. so teams might be quicker to part with some of these guys. for instance, new orleans ditched james posey in the collison deal. without that relief, i don’t know if they make the move. god knows all they got in return was an average SF. god, how did joe not offer something to get in on that? he must still believe in stuckey. kill me now.
     
    and, for the record, i anticipate no fun whatsoever this season. not in discussions and least of all while watching games. i predict frustration and depression and possibly taking an extended break from the team. i’ll certainly be a lot grumpier, which i know will only further divide people who love me or hate me. but they may not have to put up with me for long. time will tell.

  • Aug 25, 201011:41 pm
    by nuetes

    Reply

    there’s two scenarios in which prince could get traded. well, make that none unless he asks to be traded apparently. we can speculate nonetheless. one scenario is to a team looking to dump a players salary, in which case we would be taking on a salary. i don’t see any immediate candidates, but they seem to pop up come the deadline every season. some team will realize it’s going nowhere and try to dump players, unfortunately that probably won’t be the pistons. the second scenario is where a team actually values prince’s on the court skills and not just his expiring contract. in this scenario it would be a playoff destined team looking for help. this is where the pistons might be able to get themselves some young talent in return for prince.
     
    as for rip yeah i gotta agree with laser. if i were the GM of another organization i can’t envision calling up the pistons and inquiring about rip. just can’t imagine it. if we could get an expiring deal for him we have to take it. like now. or later. or sometime before his freaking contract is up because we can’t have rip and gordon together for the next 3 years. it just can’t happen. any chance to split these two up has to be considered. there needs to be some sort of desperation in relieving the team of this situation, but it doesn’t seem like there is at the moment.

  • Aug 26, 201012:58 am
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    @nuetes
    I really just think that if Rip was to be traded (for anything) you would see a lot of pressure come off the team as a whole. Especially Gordon who can then just split minutes with Stuckey at the 2. When Rip was hurt last season, Gordon proved he was more than capableof starting at the 2 and played well until he got hurt. You would think that with the added resposibility and court time, Gordon would flourish.
     
    @Laser (aka Abe Danza)
    I really don’t think Hasheem Thabeet would be worth it for Prince. He has no upside offensively and has a definate Kwame Brown aroma about him. He is a good defender though but then again so is Kwame. Cole Aldrich or Ed Davis i would take for Prince. The only problem you would have here is teams don’t like to give up on young bigs with upside. I don’t know how much of a ceiling Aldrich & Davis have but i am sure there teams are will to wait. If the Bobcats end up releasing Dampier then maybe Joe spending the left over cash on McGrady when it could of been used on Dampier. As we went through earlier, Dampier is not worth trading Prince for but he would clearly fill a position of need for the pistons. Yeah he is 35 and he more than likely be a 1 year band-aid but for part of MLE he would of been worth it. Don’t get me wrong i don’t hate the McGrady signing as it probably makes Joe feel more comfortable (i didn’t say more accountable) trading Rip. Dampier would allow Wallace to play some PF and Jeberko some SF. Laser i will admit that me saying to trade for Prince for Dampier was silly but Dampier is by no means a bum. He had games last year where he recorded rebounds of 20, 17, 18, 15 & 14 and he shot .625% from the floor to go with 1.2 bpg.

  • Aug 26, 20104:37 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    abe danza. ha!
     
    look, i said in that same paragraph i don’t know who’s available. i picked thabeet because he hasn’t yet and may never pan out. i could see him being available if memphis wanted a veteran like prince for a playoff push. aldrich and davis are more attractive options but less likely to be available. okc was willing to deal collison for ariza and the chance to dump posey, so i would have offered prince. point is, you get something young for him. something that could be a potential building block. not an old man who may not even represent an overall upgrade. heck, i probably would have offered him to charlotte for tyson chandler. though i suspect dumars tried to “tempt” them with rip’s albatross of a contract.
     
    believe me, i’m all about adding anyone who can help the frontcourt, and if there’s someone worth spending on who will be an upgrade (and i would certainly consider dampier that), but i’d sooner i’d burn down the palace than give away a prime trade chip for him.

  • Aug 26, 201010:23 am
    by Quin

    Reply

    Not only would we have won in 2004 without Sheed, but 2005 also.  Here’s how.  The championship Detroit Pistons weren’t Larry Brown’s team, they were Rick Carlisle’s.  Rick took the PISTONS, who sucked, and gave them the best season record in the east two years in a row.  Then he went to the INDIANA PACERS and did the same.  The Pistons, in 2002 and 2003, were gradually advancing in the playoffs.  It was inevitable.
    If we kept Rick Carlisle, there’s no way we would have drafted Darko.  That decision was made without a coach in place.   Any coach would have voiced his vision for the team, one that likely would include Carmelo, who had just led SYRACUSE to a college championship victory.  Without Darko, we have a contributing Carmelo.  Sheed was picked up to make up for THAT mistake.
    Carlisle would have played Mehmet Okur, who became an all-star, by the way, and was known to deliver 20 point games on the reg before Sheed arrived.
    I mean, let’s admit it, even the Pacers would have beaten L.A. in 2004 (Pistons V. Pacers was an awesome series), easily, and were poised to take it all in 2005 before the brawl.  Without Rick Carlisle coaching the Pacers, who would have been in the Pistons’ way to a championship?  And without all the drama surrounding Larry Brown’s departure in 2005, DURING the playoffs, which drained the team, and without Sheed screwing up guarding Robert Horry, the Pistons would have done it times two.

  • Aug 26, 20102:30 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    i stopped reading when you said “if we kept rick carlisle, there’s no way we would have drafted darko.” you live in a dream world.
     
    darko was the CONSENSUS #2 pick. for his UPSIDE. everybody wanted to get their hands on the next dirk nowitzki if they couldn’t land the first lebron james. anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless. i put the chances that anyone passed on darko with the #2 pick at around zero.

  • Aug 27, 20102:34 pm
    by Quin

    Reply

    At some point, somebody worked Darko out and decided he wasn’t ready to contribute.  That point would be more clear to a coach.  The Pistons didn’t have one –one who knew the team– when they drafted Darko.  I’m not looking into Carlisle’s mind, lol.  I’m making the point that Larry Brown’s ultimate discovery could have been made sooner, like during the initial workout.

    Everybody, bla bla.  It was a foreseeably bad decision and the only fantasy is the big excuse spectators and Pistons management alike make for the advocation for that decision before the draft: “anybody would have done it.”  Ha!  Misery loves company.

  • Aug 27, 20104:20 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    sorry quin, but you’re wrong. you’re just wrong.
     
    he was drafted based on potential. that’s not the stuff you’re going to necessarily see in a workout. and, hey, who’s to say he wouldn’t have been a better player if larry brown had at least tried to develop him. plus you’re giving the coach too much credit for influencing draft picks. we’ve had like six coaches in six years. you think joe dumars is going to let an underling make a decision like that? fat chance.
     
    also working against you in this argument is that your track record for thoughtful analysis is a joke. you called tayshaun a bum, gave sheed no credit for the championship, saying he walked onto a championship team and calling villanueva an upgrade. and you tried to bolster your argument by saying that nobody’s clamoring for him now. he’s like 36, retired, and he was a bum for his last maybe three seasons here, but he was a major part of the championship team and gave us a few good years.
     
    we agree on a few things, such as liking bynum and jerebko and wanting stuckey gone, but i don’t exactly consider you a bastion of credibility and thoughtful analysis.

  • Aug 27, 20105:08 pm
    by Quin

    Reply

    Your problem is that you’re too heavily influenced by hype and rhetoric.  There are things you can just see on your own, without tuning into what Everyone Else is thinking.

    I’ll tell you what you don’t need a workout to see: a player leading Syracuse of all teams to a national championship … against his future peers — One who we’re actively trying to figure out how to land at this moment.

  • Aug 28, 20106:06 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    wtf am i heavily influenced by? there are plenty of people here who disagree with my opinions, but i don’t think you’ll find anyone who agrees with your first paragraph. if you were paying a shred of attention you’d notice i’m constantly disagreeing with people, a far cry from “buying into the hype and rhetoric.” also, someone bashing the darko pick just accused me of being influenced by hype and rhetoric. that’s got to be a first!
     
    quin, i swear man. i’ll give you credit for this: sometimes you prove to be an independent thinker. i don’t know how many people think joe dumars is actively seeking ‘melo right now. at maximum, after he made a call and offered rip or something and was hung up on, he let it go. A) nobody with any brains thinks we could put together a package that could ever land ‘melo. in order to do that you need “assets.” the contracts we have are what’s called “liabilities.” those words are antonyms, and the good one is the one we don’t have. that’s “assets,” just to be clear. B) nobody with any brains thinks ‘melo would ever stay with detroit after his contract expires this season. C) nobody trades heaps of assets (which, in case you forgot, we don’t even have enough of to begin with) for a rental player in a season where they can’t win anyways. least of all at a position where that team is already loaded. even joe dumars wouldn’t  do that.
     
    the fun thing about this is that nobody can prove for certain how the past might have gone under different circumstances, but as long as you keep writing silly, ridiculous sh!t lik you always do, i don’t have to trouble myself with refuting your nonsense. you can’t talk sense to a crazy person. but it’s surprisingly fun to try.

  • Aug 30, 20102:09 pm
    by Quin

    Reply

    This is fun.  I was just giving you the logical response to your decision to excuse the Darko mistake with “everyone was looking for the next Dirk?”  But hey, I don’t know anything about the inner-workings of trades, so maybe logic isn’t valid without more factual knowledge.
    What’s really funny is that you just proved my entire point by trying to discredit my argument by pointing out that nobody would agree with me.  We call that irony.
    I appreciate that you give ounces of credit here and there.  You converse well and give thorough responses, when you aren’t using O’Reilly-esque insults and dismissals.  I would like to read a blog by you.  Consider it.  That way you can place your own original ideas into view, and not everything will be reactive to someone else’s.  (That’s a little unfair.  In truth, what I’ve seen is too long and technical for me to be interested, so I don’t know.)

  • Aug 31, 20102:49 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    what point did i prove? what was your point? that nobody knows what may have happened in an alternate past? perhaps i could have added this: if you can’t go back and re-do the past, best to guess it probably would have gone the same way as it did. no sense second-guessing it.
     
    my main point is that i hardly think joe dumars would let a coach influence his drafts. dumars doesn’t even let his coaches stay the length of their contracts! i like hypotheticals to an extent, but there’s no point in guessing what influence an already-fired coach may have had.
     
    you seem like an alright guy, but there’s something about your arguments that irks me. maybe it’s how you plop in with a smug little sentence that assumes you have it all figured out. and not only do your suppositions make no sense to me, but you offer no support for them. it’s akin to popping into a discussion on math and saying, “five plus one equals thirty, and it’s so obvious i don’t have to explain it to someone with a brain.” there’s a seeming arrogance to that approach to debate, but i suspect from your latest response that you’re just here to mess around. possibly just to bug people. so i can’t fault that method of “argument,” as i’m sure it bugs anyone who actually cares about what we’re discussing.

  • Sep 1, 20105:45 am
    by Dan Feldman

    Reply

    Nuetes, this is a brilliant comment on Sheed:

    “He was a smart player, smart enough to know how to have an impact by exerting zero effort, that is a rare skill.”

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