Comments on: Baseless prediction: Will Bynum is going to be the Detroit Pistons’ starting point guard by season’s end http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/08/baseless-prediction-will-bynum-is-going-to-be-the-detroit-pistons-starting-point-guard-by-seasons-end/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Tue, 21 May 2013 02:27:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/08/baseless-prediction-will-bynum-is-going-to-be-the-detroit-pistons-starting-point-guard-by-seasons-end/comment-page-2/#comment-7515 Laser Thu, 02 Sep 2010 00:38:28 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3265#comment-7515 talk about dream scenarios all you want, but as long as rip is here, divvying up minutes to the rest of the guys in your head accomplishes nothing. it doesn't paint a picture for people about the upcoming season, it doesn't stimulate anyone's mind or spur productive conversation. it's one thing to fantasize about trades and get people thinking, but going so far as to distribute minutes among a team that doesn't exist? isn't that a bit funny? i think so.   and believe it or not, i don't go out looking for people to piss off on the internet. i just happen to find them fairly regularly. i'm definitely opinionated, and certain types of people and inane conversations bother me. like when i question someone's proposed outline for distributing minutes and they chime in after the fact with the crucial (and convenient and bizarre) caveat that rip is suddenly out of the equation entirely. if you'd said from the get-go that you were discussing a dream scenario where rip doesn't exist i would have had a different approach. i wouldn't have berated your specific guidelines for imaginary distribution, because in this imaginary world, they're not so outrageous as to make a big deal of them on their own. i probably still would have pointed out that this world isn't real and that you're wasting your time trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, but i wouldn't have made such a big deal about your solution itself (as i don't think minutes would be a problem if rip was gone). you can take that to the bank!   i'm certainly willing to explain myself, so give me that. you don't have to like me or read anything i say. i'm an easy target because i don't pussyfoot around things, and i say what's on my mind. i'm like judge judy: harsh but fair. some people around here (ones who appreciate logic and thoughtful debate) appreciate me and are willing to put up with a little brashness. some people don't. i'm quite a nice guy in person, i don't say anything on the internet that i wouldn't say to someone's face, and i don't resort to personal attacks like calling people pussies or telling them to die. i criticize what people say, not who they are. when they're dreaming, i call them dreamers. when they're clueless, i call them clueless. when they're clowning around (not in the fun way, but in the way that guy called Adam does around here; the bad way), i call them jokers. at worst, on the rare occasion, i call them idiots. but that's only when they're being idiots, and i tend to use this particular word in reference to groups of idiots as opposed to singling out one of the idiots and calling him an idiot. also i call slow people slow. and occasionally i tell them to stop talking, but i guess that's more of a command than an insult. i think that's it. god bless. you've been great. talk about dream scenarios all you want, but as long as rip is here, divvying up minutes to the rest of the guys in your head accomplishes nothing. it doesn’t paint a picture for people about the upcoming season, it doesn’t stimulate anyone’s mind or spur productive conversation. it’s one thing to fantasize about trades and get people thinking, but going so far as to distribute minutes among a team that doesn’t exist? isn’t that a bit funny? i think so.
 
and believe it or not, i don’t go out looking for people to piss off on the internet. i just happen to find them fairly regularly. i’m definitely opinionated, and certain types of people and inane conversations bother me. like when i question someone’s proposed outline for distributing minutes and they chime in after the fact with the crucial (and convenient and bizarre) caveat that rip is suddenly out of the equation entirely. if you’d said from the get-go that you were discussing a dream scenario where rip doesn’t exist i would have had a different approach. i wouldn’t have berated your specific guidelines for imaginary distribution, because in this imaginary world, they’re not so outrageous as to make a big deal of them on their own. i probably still would have pointed out that this world isn’t real and that you’re wasting your time trying to solve a problem that doesn’t exist, but i wouldn’t have made such a big deal about your solution itself (as i don’t think minutes would be a problem if rip was gone). you can take that to the bank!
 
i’m certainly willing to explain myself, so give me that. you don’t have to like me or read anything i say. i’m an easy target because i don’t pussyfoot around things, and i say what’s on my mind. i’m like judge judy: harsh but fair. some people around here (ones who appreciate logic and thoughtful debate) appreciate me and are willing to put up with a little brashness. some people don’t. i’m quite a nice guy in person, i don’t say anything on the internet that i wouldn’t say to someone’s face, and i don’t resort to personal attacks like calling people pussies or telling them to die. i criticize what people say, not who they are. when they’re dreaming, i call them dreamers. when they’re clueless, i call them clueless. when they’re clowning around (not in the fun way, but in the way that guy called Adam does around here; the bad way), i call them jokers. at worst, on the rare occasion, i call them idiots. but that’s only when they’re being idiots, and i tend to use this particular word in reference to groups of idiots as opposed to singling out one of the idiots and calling him an idiot. also i call slow people slow. and occasionally i tell them to stop talking, but i guess that’s more of a command than an insult. i think that’s it. god bless. you’ve been great.

]]> By: Josh V http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/08/baseless-prediction-will-bynum-is-going-to-be-the-detroit-pistons-starting-point-guard-by-seasons-end/comment-page-2/#comment-7513 Josh V Wed, 01 Sep 2010 23:32:54 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3265#comment-7513 I've always enjoyed checking out possible trade scenarios and other news topics discussed here, but I'm currently realizing why I stopped posting in online forums and kept my sports talk with real people that aren't as stupidly opinionated as the trash talking p*ssies on the internet.  To everyone else that can respectfully discuss sports topics, Feldman and others who lead these posts have discussed "dream" scenarios where players are traded or FAs are signed in the offseason.  I see nothing wrong with discussing a scenario where Rip is not a part of this team and see if you guys come up with different trade scenarios (other than the Eddy Curry/Dampier deals that have been discussed earlier).  I'd ask you to do me the favor of keeping your genius to yourself Laser, but you seem to be the type that enjoys attempting to piss people off over the internet. I want Rip off this team and as I've stated before at this point I'm not sure I care what we have to do to move him.  The only other scenario that would make any sense to me whatsoever would be to trade Ben Gordon, but I feel he has a lot more to offer this team; anyone disagree? I’ve always enjoyed checking out possible trade scenarios and other news topics discussed here, but I’m currently realizing why I stopped posting in online forums and kept my sports talk with real people that aren’t as stupidly opinionated as the trash talking p*ssies on the internet. 
To everyone else that can respectfully discuss sports topics, Feldman and others who lead these posts have discussed “dream” scenarios where players are traded or FAs are signed in the offseason.  I see nothing wrong with discussing a scenario where Rip is not a part of this team and see if you guys come up with different trade scenarios (other than the Eddy Curry/Dampier deals that have been discussed earlier).  I’d ask you to do me the favor of keeping your genius to yourself Laser, but you seem to be the type that enjoys attempting to piss people off over the internet.
I want Rip off this team and as I’ve stated before at this point I’m not sure I care what we have to do to move him.  The only other scenario that would make any sense to me whatsoever would be to trade Ben Gordon, but I feel he has a lot more to offer this team; anyone disagree?

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/08/baseless-prediction-will-bynum-is-going-to-be-the-detroit-pistons-starting-point-guard-by-seasons-end/comment-page-2/#comment-7475 Laser Wed, 01 Sep 2010 04:53:14 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3265#comment-7475 daye at the 4? are you f*cking kidding me? who wrote this, keith langlois?? daye will never play the 4 next season. not for a second. he's barely strong enough to play the 3. don't be stupid.   also, way to conveniently adjust your minutes distribution by adding the highly unlikely (however attractive) variable that rip is suddenly just gone. there is no greater waste of time in the world than playing fantasy coach under imaginary circumstances THAT DO NOT REFLECT REALITY. i don't think minutes are a real problem if rip is moved. but that "if" indicates that you're living in a DREAM WORLD. my personal dream world, but a dream world nonetheless.   i don't care about my own time (that much should be obvious). but your life is probably precious, so you really shouldn't waste it. you have loved ones, or people who tolerate you, or at the very least, other people on the internet to have meaningless interactions with. don't waste your time distributing imaginary minutes for a team that does not exist. there's so much more to life!   also, i love that even in this modified scenario, where you've obviously considered a portion of my irrefutable logic, you still have daye playing chump change minutes. a far cry from the 20 you were going to let him "test the waters" with. and this is (magically) without rip. try distributing minutes in reality if you're looking for a productive way to waste time. also it should give you an adequate sense of terror for the coming holocaust-- er, basketball season.   i can't tell if you're slow or just stubborn. i'd feel bad (a little bad) if it turned out you were just very slow. but you think t-mac's departure would open the door for white and/or summers? what about daye and the chump change he's lucky to get? and the career low minutes you've allocated to the core players (taking into account, of course, this magical and fanciful omission of rip). stuckey and bynum are sharing 48 total, t-mac and gordon are doing pretty much the same, tayshaun's limited to 30. and when 24 minutes get freed up, they go to white and/or summers. right. very thoughtful analysis. it would take a catastrophic series of injuries or deaths for those guys to dress at all.   nobody else would be comfortable with your logic ("where's rip? i coulda' sworn we were paying him $13 million and he's a captain") or math (see above). i'm with you on advocating a trade of rip, but the overlap stops right there. dead in its tracks. come up with some useful scenarios (here's an example to get you going: how would you realistically split the minutes for our ACTUAL team?) and i'll gladly analyze them fairly. for what you've done, you might as well have come up with an imaginary distribution of minutes if we had a young larry bird and magic johnson. it's precisely as useful (which is to say, "not useful in any way") for the sake of conversation. daye at the 4? are you f*cking kidding me? who wrote this, keith langlois?? daye will never play the 4 next season. not for a second. he’s barely strong enough to play the 3. don’t be stupid.
 
also, way to conveniently adjust your minutes distribution by adding the highly unlikely (however attractive) variable that rip is suddenly just gone. there is no greater waste of time in the world than playing fantasy coach under imaginary circumstances THAT DO NOT REFLECT REALITY. i don’t think minutes are a real problem if rip is moved. but that “if” indicates that you’re living in a DREAM WORLD. my personal dream world, but a dream world nonetheless.
 
i don’t care about my own time (that much should be obvious). but your life is probably precious, so you really shouldn’t waste it. you have loved ones, or people who tolerate you, or at the very least, other people on the internet to have meaningless interactions with. don’t waste your time distributing imaginary minutes for a team that does not exist. there’s so much more to life!
 
also, i love that even in this modified scenario, where you’ve obviously considered a portion of my irrefutable logic, you still have daye playing chump change minutes. a far cry from the 20 you were going to let him “test the waters” with. and this is (magically) without rip. try distributing minutes in reality if you’re looking for a productive way to waste time. also it should give you an adequate sense of terror for the coming holocaust– er, basketball season.
 
i can’t tell if you’re slow or just stubborn. i’d feel bad (a little bad) if it turned out you were just very slow. but you think t-mac’s departure would open the door for white and/or summers? what about daye and the chump change he’s lucky to get? and the career low minutes you’ve allocated to the core players (taking into account, of course, this magical and fanciful omission of rip). stuckey and bynum are sharing 48 total, t-mac and gordon are doing pretty much the same, tayshaun’s limited to 30. and when 24 minutes get freed up, they go to white and/or summers. right. very thoughtful analysis. it would take a catastrophic series of injuries or deaths for those guys to dress at all.
 
nobody else would be comfortable with your logic (“where’s rip? i coulda’ sworn we were paying him $13 million and he’s a captain”) or math (see above). i’m with you on advocating a trade of rip, but the overlap stops right there. dead in its tracks. come up with some useful scenarios (here’s an example to get you going: how would you realistically split the minutes for our ACTUAL team?) and i’ll gladly analyze them fairly. for what you’ve done, you might as well have come up with an imaginary distribution of minutes if we had a young larry bird and magic johnson. it’s precisely as useful (which is to say, “not useful in any way”) for the sake of conversation.

]]> By: Josh V http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/08/baseless-prediction-will-bynum-is-going-to-be-the-detroit-pistons-starting-point-guard-by-seasons-end/comment-page-2/#comment-7460 Josh V Tue, 31 Aug 2010 23:33:11 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3265#comment-7460 I have been saying that Rip needs to be moved asap for as long as I can remember.  If he is moved then that would allow for the 48 minutes at the 2 to be shared between T-Mac and Gordon.  I see T-Mac as a low risk trial type of situation with the ability to perhaps prove everyone wrong.  If that became the case I see him backing up the 2 and playing the 3 occasionally to be able to achieve the ~20-25 mpg I've spoken about earlier.  That leaves minutes for Tay at the 3 in the ballpark of 30 mpg with chump change for Daye at the 3 and occasionally (VERY) at the 4.  Put Stuckey at the 1 with ~25-30 mpg and Bynum at 15-20 mpg.  Have Ben play ~25 mpg with Max backing him up at about 15 mpg while throwing in Monroe to soak up what's left over (5-12 mpg depending).  That leaves who starts at the 4; which is a toss up between Villanueva and Jerebko if you ask me (with Jerebko getting the edge).  Have Jerebko play the 4 ~25 mpg and Villanueva do the same thing (~25 mpg). Stuckey, Gordon, Tayshaun, Jerebko, Wallace Bynum, T-Mac, Daye, Villanueva, Maxiel/Monroe Gordon shouldn't really play next to Bynum due to size unless playing against a very small opp., and this is all assuming T-Mac is playing healthy and contributing (which I realize there's a very good chance that will not happen).  Tayshaun, Jerebko, and Gordon should all play heavy minutes when possible.  I feel the PG mpg should be somewhat equal b/w Stuckey and Bynum.  T-Mac can play the 2 and the 3 to get his ~20-25 mpg.  Unless we see something legit out of Villanueva, I don't see him averaging a ton of minutes (which makes his contract pretty f*cking terrible) because Jerebko has earned the right to more mpg.  Wallace will not be able to play much past 25 mpg and Max's productivity hits a ceiling at about 20 mpg (on a good night).  Fit in Monroe and Daye as much as possible.  Worst case scenario with T-Mac is he doesn't do shit, costs us 1.4 mil and opens the door for White and/or Summers to get some solid PT. I have a feeling you will point out my deficiencies from every possible aspect Laser, but I'm comfortable with my logic and my math.  As I seemingly do with all my posts, I'll end it with TRADE RIP.  At this point an expiring contract with some draft pick(s) is worth it.  He's too expensive and with or without him this team isn't doing much. I have been saying that Rip needs to be moved asap for as long as I can remember.  If he is moved then that would allow for the 48 minutes at the 2 to be shared between T-Mac and Gordon.  I see T-Mac as a low risk trial type of situation with the ability to perhaps prove everyone wrong.  If that became the case I see him backing up the 2 and playing the 3 occasionally to be able to achieve the ~20-25 mpg I’ve spoken about earlier.  That leaves minutes for Tay at the 3 in the ballpark of 30 mpg with chump change for Daye at the 3 and occasionally (VERY) at the 4.  Put Stuckey at the 1 with ~25-30 mpg and Bynum at 15-20 mpg.  Have Ben play ~25 mpg with Max backing him up at about 15 mpg while throwing in Monroe to soak up what’s left over (5-12 mpg depending).  That leaves who starts at the 4; which is a toss up between Villanueva and Jerebko if you ask me (with Jerebko getting the edge).  Have Jerebko play the 4 ~25 mpg and Villanueva do the same thing (~25 mpg).
Stuckey, Gordon, Tayshaun, Jerebko, Wallace
Bynum, T-Mac, Daye, Villanueva, Maxiel/Monroe
Gordon shouldn’t really play next to Bynum due to size unless playing against a very small opp., and this is all assuming T-Mac is playing healthy and contributing (which I realize there’s a very good chance that will not happen).  Tayshaun, Jerebko, and Gordon should all play heavy minutes when possible.  I feel the PG mpg should be somewhat equal b/w Stuckey and Bynum.  T-Mac can play the 2 and the 3 to get his ~20-25 mpg.  Unless we see something legit out of Villanueva, I don’t see him averaging a ton of minutes (which makes his contract pretty f*cking terrible) because Jerebko has earned the right to more mpg.  Wallace will not be able to play much past 25 mpg and Max’s productivity hits a ceiling at about 20 mpg (on a good night).  Fit in Monroe and Daye as much as possible.  Worst case scenario with T-Mac is he doesn’t do shit, costs us 1.4 mil and opens the door for White and/or Summers to get some solid PT.
I have a feeling you will point out my deficiencies from every possible aspect Laser, but I’m comfortable with my logic and my math.  As I seemingly do with all my posts, I’ll end it with TRADE RIP.  At this point an expiring contract with some draft pick(s) is worth it.  He’s too expensive and with or without him this team isn’t doing much.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/08/baseless-prediction-will-bynum-is-going-to-be-the-detroit-pistons-starting-point-guard-by-seasons-end/comment-page-2/#comment-7458 Laser Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:42:14 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3265#comment-7458 look, man. i'm with you on t-mac. at first i was 100% sure that signing was an immediate precursor to trading rip. every day i get surer and surer it's not happening and that we're actually going forward like this. and the pistons organization is going to act surprised and make more bogus excuses when it doesn't work out. i can see it now. another season of the pistons' spin machine saying "the team is better than this." and it won't be.   so assuming rip's here to stay, joe dumars would have been hard-pressed to come up with a worse roster move than adding t-mac. either he stinks and we waste time and precious minutes figuring it out, or he's productive and eats up even more minutes in a losing season. but i'm trying to be realistic here. he wasn't signed NOT to play. he's going to play. so when we play fantasy head coach and distribute imaginary minutes, we may as well do it within realistic guidelines.   we agree on moving stuckey. i think we should have traded that guy by now, but the sooner the better. his value isn't going to increase as he gets more and more exposed year after year. i do think it's a bit ambitious to pencil terrico white into the rotation right away as our backup PG, but not quite as crazy as trying to juggle all the guys we have right now. look, man. i’m with you on t-mac. at first i was 100% sure that signing was an immediate precursor to trading rip. every day i get surer and surer it’s not happening and that we’re actually going forward like this. and the pistons organization is going to act surprised and make more bogus excuses when it doesn’t work out. i can see it now. another season of the pistons’ spin machine saying “the team is better than this.” and it won’t be.
 
so assuming rip’s here to stay, joe dumars would have been hard-pressed to come up with a worse roster move than adding t-mac. either he stinks and we waste time and precious minutes figuring it out, or he’s productive and eats up even more minutes in a losing season. but i’m trying to be realistic here. he wasn’t signed NOT to play. he’s going to play. so when we play fantasy head coach and distribute imaginary minutes, we may as well do it within realistic guidelines.
 
we agree on moving stuckey. i think we should have traded that guy by now, but the sooner the better. his value isn’t going to increase as he gets more and more exposed year after year. i do think it’s a bit ambitious to pencil terrico white into the rotation right away as our backup PG, but not quite as crazy as trying to juggle all the guys we have right now.

]]> By: Vince http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/08/baseless-prediction-will-bynum-is-going-to-be-the-detroit-pistons-starting-point-guard-by-seasons-end/comment-page-2/#comment-7447 Vince Tue, 31 Aug 2010 11:24:40 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3265#comment-7447 I can see where you guys are coming from, if  we can put Bynum as a starter that'd be great, but I think a lot of people are asking themselves if he can play straight up like that.  @Laser I understand your case with the minutes, but I think its a waste of good talent if we dont have time for Daye, White, and hell, even Summers. Taking T-Mac was a mistake, if he turns out to be a dud, which he probably will be, I can only hope that he either makes the bench behind Tay and Daye, or even better, the inactive list. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, I just think it was a bad call, and now we're stuck with a big logjam. Regarding minutes though, I have to agree completely. I just think we need to give more time to young talent and get rid of  older players who's time has passed (Mostly T-Mac), The Pistons are rebuilding, they don't need egotistical has-beens complicating the roster. On another note I'll take the compliment on the roster make-over. I still do honestly believe that we have to clear the roster: Stuckey and Wilcox haven't really deserved their spot on the team (my opinion), and Summers needs to go to Development League. I'd love to see a situation where we keep Tay and Rip, but thats seeming less possible. Trade T-Mac, he's not worth all the trouble. The roster I'd love to see now would be Bynum, Rip, Tay, Jerebko and Big Ben, with White, Gordon, Daye, Villanueva, Monroe and why not Max and Summers on the bench. I can see where you guys are coming from, if  we can put Bynum as a starter that’d be great, but I think a lot of people are asking themselves if he can play straight up like that. 

@Laser
I understand your case with the minutes, but I think its a waste of good talent if we dont have time for Daye, White, and hell, even Summers. Taking T-Mac was a mistake, if he turns out to be a dud, which he probably will be, I can only hope that he either makes the bench behind Tay and Daye, or even better, the inactive list. Don’t get me wrong, I like the guy, I just think it was a bad call, and now we’re stuck with a big logjam. Regarding minutes though, I have to agree completely. I just think we need to give more time to young talent and get rid of  older players who’s time has passed (Mostly T-Mac), The Pistons are rebuilding, they don’t need egotistical has-beens complicating the roster.
On another note I’ll take the compliment on the roster make-over.
I still do honestly believe that we have to clear the roster: Stuckey and Wilcox haven’t really deserved their spot on the team (my opinion), and Summers needs to go to Development League. I’d love to see a situation where we keep Tay and Rip, but thats seeming less possible. Trade T-Mac, he’s not worth all the trouble. The roster I’d love to see now would be Bynum, Rip, Tay, Jerebko and Big Ben, with White, Gordon, Daye, Villanueva, Monroe and why not Max and Summers on the bench.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/08/baseless-prediction-will-bynum-is-going-to-be-the-detroit-pistons-starting-point-guard-by-seasons-end/comment-page-2/#comment-7440 Laser Tue, 31 Aug 2010 06:30:07 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3265#comment-7440 well vince, i guess you agree with, uh, some of the stuff i've said. but we're certainly not on the same page. here's where we differ, hard.   ben gordon should not start over stuckey, because that means he's being paired with rip or bynum, the two guys i cringe at pairing him with. gordon and rip hamilton should never be on the floor together unless they're on opposing teams, and never ever in the same starting lineup. that sounds just awful. though it is impressive that you've downgraded the seemingly undowngradable.   josh v is being polite. to be perfectly clear here, i'm dogging on your idea. hard.   also, josh v seems to be ignoring facts i seem to spell out daily here. to wit: dude, you're talking about handing out 25 perimeter minutes like candy corn on halloween. how does this not get through thick skulls?? please read the following sentence and PROCESS the thought before you go about posting thoughtless suggestions: if we split ALL of our perimeter minutes six ways (among stuckey, bynum, rip, gordon, tayshaun, t-mac. note that i did NOT include daye), each averages 24 minutes. TWENTY-FOUR. that's the kind of minutes for a significant contributor off the bench. so if you're giving t-mac "a shot at maybe 25 minutes JUST TO SEE WHAT HE CAN DO," you've handed him ONE MINUTE MORE THAN THE AVERAGE FOR YOUR SIX MAN PERIMETER. and forget about 20 minutes for daye. he'll be lucky to play at all behind all those other guys. and if he's lackluster he's cut to 15. right. i'm sure we've got the luxury of giving 15 minutes to a guy who's not contributing, while our five other rotation perimeter guys average a luxurious sub-26 minutes. are you bad at math or something? i'm not trying to be rude here, but where the F are you getting these crooked numbers? "daye's not ready to REALLY contribute yet. let's limit him to 20 minutes!" hahahahaha you're kidding, right? he's kidding. he's gotta be kidding, right? if austin plays 20 minutes, the six guys ahead of him in the rotation will average 20 AND TWO THIRDS of a minute.   the plain fact is that you're either not using your brain or you are not smart. i won't bother to guess the answer. and hey, i'm sure people will think i'm mean. so be it. you can't possibly understand what you're talking about. and i wouldn't be doing you any favors by pretending that your thoughts about the distribution of minutes are valid. they aren't. even my staunchest detractors will agree. well vince, i guess you agree with, uh, some of the stuff i’ve said. but we’re certainly not on the same page. here’s where we differ, hard.
 
ben gordon should not start over stuckey, because that means he’s being paired with rip or bynum, the two guys i cringe at pairing him with. gordon and rip hamilton should never be on the floor together unless they’re on opposing teams, and never ever in the same starting lineup. that sounds just awful. though it is impressive that you’ve downgraded the seemingly undowngradable.
 
josh v is being polite. to be perfectly clear here, i’m dogging on your idea. hard.
 
also, josh v seems to be ignoring facts i seem to spell out daily here. to wit: dude, you’re talking about handing out 25 perimeter minutes like candy corn on halloween. how does this not get through thick skulls?? please read the following sentence and PROCESS the thought before you go about posting thoughtless suggestions: if we split ALL of our perimeter minutes six ways (among stuckey, bynum, rip, gordon, tayshaun, t-mac. note that i did NOT include daye), each averages 24 minutes. TWENTY-FOUR. that’s the kind of minutes for a significant contributor off the bench. so if you’re giving t-mac “a shot at maybe 25 minutes JUST TO SEE WHAT HE CAN DO,” you’ve handed him ONE MINUTE MORE THAN THE AVERAGE FOR YOUR SIX MAN PERIMETER. and forget about 20 minutes for daye. he’ll be lucky to play at all behind all those other guys. and if he’s lackluster he’s cut to 15. right. i’m sure we’ve got the luxury of giving 15 minutes to a guy who’s not contributing, while our five other rotation perimeter guys average a luxurious sub-26 minutes. are you bad at math or something? i’m not trying to be rude here, but where the F are you getting these crooked numbers? “daye’s not ready to REALLY contribute yet. let’s limit him to 20 minutes!” hahahahaha you’re kidding, right? he’s kidding. he’s gotta be kidding, right? if austin plays 20 minutes, the six guys ahead of him in the rotation will average 20 AND TWO THIRDS of a minute.
 
the plain fact is that you’re either not using your brain or you are not smart. i won’t bother to guess the answer. and hey, i’m sure people will think i’m mean. so be it. you can’t possibly understand what you’re talking about. and i wouldn’t be doing you any favors by pretending that your thoughts about the distribution of minutes are valid. they aren’t. even my staunchest detractors will agree.

]]> By: Josh V http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/08/baseless-prediction-will-bynum-is-going-to-be-the-detroit-pistons-starting-point-guard-by-seasons-end/comment-page-2/#comment-7438 Josh V Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:37:16 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3265#comment-7438 Vince, I don't see BG as a good playmaker, I think ultimately his shots would go way up and everyone else who starts would see fewer shots.  BG is great at creating his own shot, but I've never seen him as someone who can run an offense.  Not dogging on your idea, I'm just saying I think he'd force too many shots and actually be WORSE than Stuckey at running the offense.  Bynum would be better at starting than Gordon, and if that was the case than I think he should be starting next to Rip and Tay with BG as the 6th man and T-Mac coming in to soak up the majority of what's left for back-up guard/SF minutes.  I don't think Daye can really play much more than 20 mpg and I think that's his ceiling this year.  I think he could end up as a formidable pro bball player, just not this soon.  We're only paying T-Mac 1.5 mil, and I think he deserves to get a shot at ~25 mpg just to see what he can do.  If he puts up lackluster numbers and looks feeble than I say we cut our losses and trim him down to about 15 mpg; either way it's a low risk high reward scenario (and lets face it this team isn't going to excel either way [unless T-Mac miraculously returns to his from cerca 3 years ago]).  ultimately Stuckey, Rip, and Tay should most likely be moved (MAYBE hold onto Tayshaun, but that's a big maybe if you ask me). Vince,
I don’t see BG as a good playmaker, I think ultimately his shots would go way up and everyone else who starts would see fewer shots.  BG is great at creating his own shot, but I’ve never seen him as someone who can run an offense.  Not dogging on your idea, I’m just saying I think he’d force too many shots and actually be WORSE than Stuckey at running the offense.  Bynum would be better at starting than Gordon, and if that was the case than I think he should be starting next to Rip and Tay with BG as the 6th man and T-Mac coming in to soak up the majority of what’s left for back-up guard/SF minutes.  I don’t think Daye can really play much more than 20 mpg and I think that’s his ceiling this year.  I think he could end up as a formidable pro bball player, just not this soon.  We’re only paying T-Mac 1.5 mil, and I think he deserves to get a shot at ~25 mpg just to see what he can do.  If he puts up lackluster numbers and looks feeble than I say we cut our losses and trim him down to about 15 mpg; either way it’s a low risk high reward scenario (and lets face it this team isn’t going to excel either way [unless T-Mac miraculously returns to his from cerca 3 years ago]).  ultimately Stuckey, Rip, and Tay should most likely be moved (MAYBE hold onto Tayshaun, but that’s a big maybe if you ask me).

]]> By: Vince http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/08/baseless-prediction-will-bynum-is-going-to-be-the-detroit-pistons-starting-point-guard-by-seasons-end/comment-page-2/#comment-7429 Vince Mon, 30 Aug 2010 07:52:23 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3265#comment-7429 Ok first of all, I have to agree with Laser. The only way I see the logjam and evry other problem go away is quite simple: -Monitor T-Mac, if shits' gonna hit the fan, its with him. -Switch Bynum to the PG spot withWhite backing him up. -Trade Stuckey and Wilcox, (possibly CV if he played as bad as last year) -Send Summers to the D-League. Which gives you: Gordon, Rip, Tay, Jerebko, and Big Ben as starting lineup. And a second Unit of  Bynum, T-Mac, Daye, CV, and Monroe, with Terrico and Max as  back up. I don't know about you but that seems much better than what we have now. Oh and BTW, I put Gordon as PG, T-Mac at SG and Daye as SF, it can change around, but I thought it would work out better this way. Ok first of all, I have to agree with Laser. The only way I see the logjam and evry other problem go away is quite simple:
-Monitor T-Mac, if shits’ gonna hit the fan, its with him.
-Switch Bynum to the PG spot withWhite backing him up.
-Trade Stuckey and Wilcox, (possibly CV if he played as bad as last year)
-Send Summers to the D-League.

Which gives you: Gordon, Rip, Tay, Jerebko, and Big Ben as starting lineup. And a second Unit of  Bynum, T-Mac, Daye, CV, and Monroe, with Terrico and Max as  back up. I don’t know about you but that seems much better than what we have now. Oh and BTW, I put Gordon as PG, T-Mac at SG and Daye as SF, it can change around, but I thought it would work out better this way.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/08/baseless-prediction-will-bynum-is-going-to-be-the-detroit-pistons-starting-point-guard-by-seasons-end/comment-page-2/#comment-7406 Laser Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:43:25 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/?p=3265#comment-7406 @feldman: 1) if we're talking about a center, defense is at the top of my concerns. if we're talking about a point guard, i'll go with the guy who does a better job running the team. rip, tayshaun, jonas and big ben are all fine defenders and can collectively pick up the slack on defense. certainly more so than the likes of ben gordon, charlie villanueva and t-mac. what use is a good (not great) defensive starting lineup that can't score any points? i don't understand how you can pair bynum with ben gordon, especially if you're so concerned about defense. and it's not like bynum is iverson. he's more lindsey hunter than iverson. iverson got torched nightly, and it was absolutely necessary to bench him. even if stuckey was a "great" defender, i doubt he'd be good enough to warrant starting him over bynum. he'd pretty much need to get a steal every other possession, and we'd still have trouble converting on any of them.   2) look, i think stuckey would be a fine sixth man, spark off the bench type of guy, playing behind two very good guards, like he did his rookie year. but we aren't able or likely to surround him with such players, so he's more useful as a trade piece. if we could freeze 23 year old stuckey and thaw him when we have the second coming of chauncey and rip, i'd do it. but gordon and rip are NO chauncey and rip, and we have long-term, burdensome commitments to those two. stuckey's the movable piece, and we have a great many needs on this team, not the least of which is reducing the number of shooting guards we have. and who's to say joe would ever share my vision for stuckey at all? you can't look at these things in bits and pieces. "well if we had a big shot-blocking center he could cover for charlie, so let's not trade charlie. and if we had a pass-first point guard he could play with rip and rip could be an all-star again, so let's not trade rip." you can't play fantasy GM like that.   the fact is that a lot of the guys on our team could be contributors to winning teams, but that's not a reason to keep all of them or any one of them. ben gordon, tayshaun, potentially t-mac. even charlie v could be an asset in the right system. who wouldn't want a guy like that at the end of the bench to throw out and see if he's got it on a given night? you can bet he's going to take over a handful of games over the course of a season, but if you're relying on him to contribute night-in and night-out, you'll get burned.   i try to propose realistic scenarios, and trading stuckey is one of our few realistic options for improvement. he could certainly fetch a good draft pick. joe sealed his fate when he extended rip and signed gordon in the same year. you've got an unbelievably expensive backcourt that does not fit together, and your three go-to scorers all play the same position (and somehow your best-case scenario for t-mac is that he becomes a fourth go-to scorer at that same position). something has to give. are you content to watch this parade of guards crash and burn and break every jump-shooting record in the book EXCEPT for "jump shots made?" i'm not.   @josh: some feedback for stuckey to help him run an offense... when you penetrate, you don't always need to put up a feeble shot after you've drawn five defensers. basketball is a team sport. for once, try passing to one off the other guys on the floor who are wearing the same color outfit as you. these people are called "teammates." after you've drawn all the defenders who used to be covering these "teammates," pass to one of them (almost any one will do). you might even get an "assist!" "assists" are those things you luck into about once every ten minutes played when you make a good pass. "assists" are good. well, there's one note that instantly makes him at least twice as good and fifty times less predictable. a good start!   also you just made me realize something. a missed shot isn't a turnover, no matter how ill-advised or far off it is, and obviously shots shouldn't generally be counted as turnovers, but every time stuckey penetrates, draws 4-5, sometimes it seems like 6, defenders and attempts a feeble layup that's blocked with no whistle, it should absolutely be viewed as a turnover. that guy turns it over waaay more than his numbers indicate.   i've seen the kid interviewed, and he says he's always looking to score. it's who he is. it's not in his makeup to set people up and get them involved. what more do you need to know. physical tools mean nothing if you can't capitalize on them. @feldman:
1) if we’re talking about a center, defense is at the top of my concerns. if we’re talking about a point guard, i’ll go with the guy who does a better job running the team. rip, tayshaun, jonas and big ben are all fine defenders and can collectively pick up the slack on defense. certainly more so than the likes of ben gordon, charlie villanueva and t-mac. what use is a good (not great) defensive starting lineup that can’t score any points? i don’t understand how you can pair bynum with ben gordon, especially if you’re so concerned about defense. and it’s not like bynum is iverson. he’s more lindsey hunter than iverson. iverson got torched nightly, and it was absolutely necessary to bench him. even if stuckey was a “great” defender, i doubt he’d be good enough to warrant starting him over bynum. he’d pretty much need to get a steal every other possession, and we’d still have trouble converting on any of them.
 
2) look, i think stuckey would be a fine sixth man, spark off the bench type of guy, playing behind two very good guards, like he did his rookie year. but we aren’t able or likely to surround him with such players, so he’s more useful as a trade piece. if we could freeze 23 year old stuckey and thaw him when we have the second coming of chauncey and rip, i’d do it. but gordon and rip are NO chauncey and rip, and we have long-term, burdensome commitments to those two. stuckey’s the movable piece, and we have a great many needs on this team, not the least of which is reducing the number of shooting guards we have. and who’s to say joe would ever share my vision for stuckey at all? you can’t look at these things in bits and pieces. “well if we had a big shot-blocking center he could cover for charlie, so let’s not trade charlie. and if we had a pass-first point guard he could play with rip and rip could be an all-star again, so let’s not trade rip.” you can’t play fantasy GM like that.
 
the fact is that a lot of the guys on our team could be contributors to winning teams, but that’s not a reason to keep all of them or any one of them. ben gordon, tayshaun, potentially t-mac. even charlie v could be an asset in the right system. who wouldn’t want a guy like that at the end of the bench to throw out and see if he’s got it on a given night? you can bet he’s going to take over a handful of games over the course of a season, but if you’re relying on him to contribute night-in and night-out, you’ll get burned.
 
i try to propose realistic scenarios, and trading stuckey is one of our few realistic options for improvement. he could certainly fetch a good draft pick. joe sealed his fate when he extended rip and signed gordon in the same year. you’ve got an unbelievably expensive backcourt that does not fit together, and your three go-to scorers all play the same position (and somehow your best-case scenario for t-mac is that he becomes a fourth go-to scorer at that same position). something has to give. are you content to watch this parade of guards crash and burn and break every jump-shooting record in the book EXCEPT for “jump shots made?” i’m not.
 
@josh: some feedback for stuckey to help him run an offense… when you penetrate, you don’t always need to put up a feeble shot after you’ve drawn five defensers. basketball is a team sport. for once, try passing to one off the other guys on the floor who are wearing the same color outfit as you. these people are called “teammates.” after you’ve drawn all the defenders who used to be covering these “teammates,” pass to one of them (almost any one will do). you might even get an “assist!” “assists” are those things you luck into about once every ten minutes played when you make a good pass. “assists” are good. well, there’s one note that instantly makes him at least twice as good and fifty times less predictable. a good start!
 
also you just made me realize something. a missed shot isn’t a turnover, no matter how ill-advised or far off it is, and obviously shots shouldn’t generally be counted as turnovers, but every time stuckey penetrates, draws 4-5, sometimes it seems like 6, defenders and attempts a feeble layup that’s blocked with no whistle, it should absolutely be viewed as a turnover. that guy turns it over waaay more than his numbers indicate.
 
i’ve seen the kid interviewed, and he says he’s always looking to score. it’s who he is. it’s not in his makeup to set people up and get them involved. what more do you need to know. physical tools mean nothing if you can’t capitalize on them.

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