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Aldridge source: Pistons will work to “un-jam the log-jam” on the wing

David Aldridge of NBA.com:

A league source indicated Tuesday that the Pistons will work to "un-jam the log jam" the team now has at the shooting guard and small forward spots.

The source said that McGrady agreed without conditions to play behind starters Rip Hamilton and Tayshawn (sic) Prince next season, though it’s likely that Detroit will move either Hamilton or Prince before the start of next season. It’s more likely the Pistons will move Prince, who is entering the last year of his contract.

A second source said Sunday that Detroit won’t move Prince unless he requests a trade.

So, either the first source has different information or Tayshaun Prince has requested a trade. My guess is the former, and Joe Dumars is more motivated to move Richard Hamilton.

43 Comments

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  • Aug 10, 20109:54 pm
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    I wonder with the Celtics waiving Rasheed Wallace and them looking for a shooter that they will try and trade for Hamilton. To me it seems very coincidental this has happen right when we have sigend McGrady. Could be something in the pipes.

  • Aug 10, 201011:00 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    The Cs are always mentioned in trade rumors with Tayshaun.  We could prolly get Baby and their 2011 1st rounder for Tay.

  • Aug 10, 201011:06 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @Alan:
    I think it’s unlikely that the Celtics give up Davis. They have a very creaky frontcourt with KG, Shaq and Jermaine O’Neal. Perk will be out for some time, so Davis is really their only young option without a ton of mileage. Giving him up without getting a big in return would seem to be a risky move for them.

  • Aug 10, 201011:07 pm
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    The reason the Pistons aren’t going to just willingly trade Prince is because he’s one of the smartest players in the league. I think he and Ben Wallace are the veterans that Joe Dumars wants molding his young team. The strategy makes sense.
    Unfortunately, Prince is also his most tradeable asset.

  • Aug 10, 201011:44 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    @ Patrick
    Good point, Baby is the most likely to stay healthy.  Then again, we’re talking about a trade that might happen closer to deadline.  So, maybe Perk, O’neal x2, and Shaq show enough health and Tay’s game is enough to make Ainge part with Baby.
     
    Rodney Stuckey is Dumars most tradeable asset (IMO).

  • Aug 10, 201011:53 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    For the record, I’m A-okay with hanging onto Tay and letting his contract expire.  I also have no problem with giving him a new one at that time.

  • Aug 11, 201012:09 am
    by trav

    Reply

    I wonder if Tony Parker is available for trade.  Considering that The Spurs really like George Hill.

  • Aug 11, 201012:14 am
    by trav

    Reply

    Maybe land McDyess again…that would be Sweet!   I don’t think the pistons should look to free up the Wings for a Big, but for a true Point Guard.  The Bigs we got are decent and young (except Big Ben, but I like him soooo), try to cut some fat off the team, starting with the Skinny ones Tay and Rip.  I’d like to keep them both, but time to move on…..sad.

  • Aug 11, 201012:23 am
    by The Rake

    Reply

    @Alan
    Finally someone with some perspective. I’m not ready to extend Prince, but I am not ready to part with him either.  I would much rather keep Prince than just about anyone on the roster.  Rip is overpaid and a bit of a headcase unfortunately…yes his contract is a monster and I fear teams will be very very wary of taking him on, knowing that we want to move him so badly, but at the end of the day, he is the one that has to go.  Package Maxy or preferably Summers with him.  Hopefully can get a big with an unatrocious deal back or bundle for picks (which we will ultimately butcher since JD sucks at drafting).

  • Aug 11, 201012:23 am
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    I know this is of topic but I was kind of hoping that the Pistons would go after Blazer’s Patty Mills (from Australia) who is a free agent albeit restricted but Portland already has 15 players signed so unless they make a trade this could be happen. For all of you that don’t remember, Patty held his own against the worlds best at the Beijing olympics. He is not a true point guard but he has better court vision and passing ability than Stuckey and Bynum and would fit very nicely here in Detroit. I truely believe Mills will have a Darren Collison like year if given the opportunity and i really hope it is here.
    Mills finished the olympics averaging 14.2 points, 2.1 rebounds, 2.0 assists, and 1.7 steals per game, while averaging 23 minutes per game, all coming off the bench. He was the leading scorer for the Boomers during the tournament, tied for the team lead with 10 steals, and was second on the squad with 12 assists. He shot 47 percent (31-66) from the floor, 36 percent (8-22) from 3-point land, and 83 percent (15-18) from the free throw line. His highest single game performance game against Argentina, when he scored 22 points against NBA players Manu Ginobili (Spurs), Luis Scola (Rockets), Carlos Delfino (Raptors), Fabricio Oberto (Spurs), and Marcelo Nocioni (Bulls). He more than held his own against the USA and looked very comfortable against Chris Paul and Deron Williams. I mean Paul and Williams had Howard, Bosh, Boozer, LeBron, Wade, Bryant and Anthony to play with where Mills had Bogut who played hurt most of the time so by that you already know Mills can play against NBA caliber players. Mills also torched it in the D-League recently.

    Some quotes:
    “He’s good. Man, he’s fast. I read something that says he’s faster than me. They’re probably right. He can move.”
    – Chris Paul, USA point guard
    “If I was Saint Mary’s, I’d be happy to have him right now, because he’s a big-time player. He’ll be heavily scouted.”
    – Tony Ronzone, U.S. Scout and Detroit Pistons player personnel director.
    Finally i know we are loaded with guards but this kid would be totally worth signing and playing in the D-League until Rip is traded.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5zfDNT4A8Y

  • Aug 11, 20102:40 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    alan, thank you for reminding me that joe dumars isn’t the worst possible option for running the team. anyone who would be satisfied with the team simply letting tayshaun’s contract expire isn’t worth listening to.
     
    tayshaun is WAY too valuable to let him walk. he would be  a great addition to a contender to put them over the top, and the cap relief his contract represents is a lot more useful to a team that could actually USE the space. if we kept everything as is and just let his $11 million come off the books, we still wouldn’t have cap space.
     
    shameless salary dumps happen, and there’s usually logic behind them, but not when you have as valuable a trading piece as tayshaun.
     
    as for extending him, i wouldn’t hate that, but i think he’s the best chance we have at landing a much needed big man (even if by draft picks). and i just don’t think that’s the best way to use our resources. i mean, we drafted three small forwards last year, including a mid first rounder. paying tayshaun what he’s worth just plain isn’t worth it. his value peaks in february, and that’s when we should trade him.

  • Aug 11, 20107:38 am
    by sop

    Reply

    How about a trade of Rip and Maxiell for Peja’s expiring contract, Darren Collison and a second round pick? Then the Pistons get a point with a lot of potential and cap space to land a center next summer. Hornets keep Paul happy by adding a veteran scorer and Max who can throw down some lobs.

  • Aug 11, 20108:08 am
    by Patrick Hayes

    Reply

    @Alan
    Prince is a much more valuable trade chip than Stuckey b/c his contract is for more money. Although Stuckey might be younger and have more teams interested, if the Pistons did a one-for-one trade with him, it would have to be for someone with a very low salary. Prince, on the other hand, could bring back someone making closer to what an All-Star caliber player makes.

  • Aug 11, 20109:29 am
    by Alan

    Reply

    @ Rake,
    I think Rip only gets moved in a salary dump or to a contender who suffers an injury at SG.  I wish no ill-will on Ray Allen, Jason Terry, or Manu, just stating some events that would increase his trade value.

  • Aug 11, 20109:36 am
    by Alan

    Reply

    @ Laser,
    If Prince’s contract expires, there’s still options before he walks for nothing…LOL.  As I mentioned, an extension is one option.  He might be more valuable in a s&t then he would be in a trade deadline deal.  It’s also important to note that we have a new contract discussion starting with Rodney this time next summer, Tay’s $11m will come in handy.  Lastly, I don’t know the inner workings of Tay’s & Joe D’s relationship but I’m going to go out on a limb here and say its a good one.  By that I mean I don’t think Tay will walking for nothing, funnyman!!

    A trade deadline deal would be unlikely to land us a big man.  Usually, contenders don’t want to give up any part of their rotation in return.  Draft picks from contenders are less valuable because who wants the 28th pick in the draft?  I’d rather have the 33rd pick and then it’s not guaranteed.

  • Aug 11, 20109:40 am
    by Alan

    Reply

    @ Patrick,
    That’s really what I was getting at, more teams are calling about Stuckey than any other Piston.  His contract is much less so we wouldn’t get much back, as you point out.  Then again, he’s due for a large payraise so we could likely unload one of our less favorable contracts (such as Maxiel) and the combined value would yield a nifty player. 

  • Aug 11, 20103:36 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    first off, i don’t think tayshaun is a particularly good candidate for a sign-and-trade. he’s going to be 31 next season, and while i suspect someone will give him one last big contract, i don’t anticipate that team giving up a lot of talent in the process. i don’t see him being THAT hot of a commodity, and it would be too risky to hold onto him that long and risk having to take any old offer just so we don’t lose him for nothing.
     
    i suspect he’ll be shopped heavily at the deadline. that’s when the race is on and the value of talent skyrockets. for a related example, look at baseball. the texas rangers are in bankruptcy, but they’re unexpectedly looking like a virtual lock for the division, so they made a bunch of moves. payroll situations don’t look quite the same in a playoff race.
     
    you never know who steps up in a given season and fills a role. teams are going to need to match up against miami, and tayshaun would be a great guy to add to a team that needed bodies to contain wade and lebron, or kobe or durant. i think that’s when tayshaun’s value peaks and he gets moved. maybe that rookie center orlando drafted (orton) steps up and proves he can handle backup minutes behind howard, and they’re willing to trade gortat and bass (who doesn’t seem to fit in there anyways) to better match up with miami. who knows? i’m sure there are plenty of teams in the west who’d like to add a pro like that to their playoff push.
     
    i just don’t think it’s in our best interest to hold onto him all season long. stay tuned.

  • Aug 11, 20105:13 pm
    by nuetes

    Reply

    If Prince doesn’t get moved I have no problem with it. If he does get moved a contract will be coming in return, so it had better be a good player. Even if Prince resigns to a cheaper deal I’m ok with it. I’m not ok with both Rip and Gordon being on the roster though. One of them has to go. I’d honestly prefer it was Gordon, but whatever. Maybe both of them need to go and hit the reset button at SG. Gotta upgrade the starters somewhere if the team is ever going to compete.

  • Aug 11, 20106:00 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    @Laser,
    I guess it all depends on who might be available at deadline.  If its Gortat, great move – turn an expiring contract into a fairly priced C locked-in for a few more years.  On the other hand, if its Bass only (or a similar player) do we trade for yet another tweener whose fighting for minutes and can’t get it done where there at?  Don’t we have enough of those?  If this is the case, I’d rather let the contract expire and look at options available over the summer (S&T for Pyrzbilla anyone?).

    My point is, I’m skeptical a player like Gortat will be available to us at deadline.  Usually, a contender won’t part with a player that’s part of the rotation.  

  • Aug 11, 20107:20 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    well i said this is a possibility if orton proves he can be a capable (not to mention DIRT cheap) backup. i don’t  know how long the magic intends on paying gortat $14 million to play 15 minutes (orlando is way over the tax line), so you have to figure he gets moved at some point. likewise they’re paying bass $8 mil a year (again, double his salary because of the tax penalty). i think tayshaun will be one of the more attractive players available at the deadline, and i don’t think it would make sense for orlando to go after him. maybe bass isn’t your cup of tea, but he’s a logical add-on to make salaries match. a productive player on a very reasonable contract, and i’m sure you could move him easily if you wanted to.
     
    obviously you’ll want to get more than brandon bass for tayshaun (we already have max) but besides that fact, you have to match salaries. bass makes about 1/3 as much as tayshaun, so that’s not a viable trade anyways.
     
    and yes, uh, obviously you want a good player in return. that’s ENTIRELY the point. you’re not going to trade a productive player on an expiring contract for scrubs. on this team you’ll want to get an impact big man (or, less likely, a point guard).
     
    fat chance dumars hits the “reset” button at SG, but i’d be for that. it just won’t happen, though, since you’ve got like $25 million invested in rip and gordon. now that t-mac is on board, you can afford to dump rip for nothing, but you can’t just unload them both and consider it an upgrade.
     
    and i’m sorry, but prince for pryzbilla?!?!?!?!? wtf? these last two posts (19 & 20) are going to give me an ulcer. trade your best asset for a 32 year old, injury prone backup center?? i swear to god. how could this make sense to anyone? i don’t know who will be available at the deadline, but i think joe actually understands tayshaun’s value and will use him to improve the team.
     
    and anyone who would be OK with tayshaun prince walking away from the team for nothing can’t possibly understand what they’re talking about. i don’t want to seem TOO snobbish, but he is one of our most valuable trade pieces, and dumars would have to be an idiot to let him just come off the books.

  • Aug 11, 201010:15 pm
    by The Rake

    Reply

    @Alan
    If it means we can move Rip (preferably out of conference), I wish ill will on all of those guys.  Shine it.  I’m a Pistons fan, I wish ill will on all other teams in the Association essentially…

  • Aug 11, 201010:24 pm
    by sop

    Reply

    Hamilton and Jerebko to New Jersey for Chris Humphries, Derrick Favors, Terrence Williams and Quinton Ross.

  • Aug 11, 201011:13 pm
    by James (Australia)

    Reply

    If you let Prince’s contract expire, you have to do a sign and trade, because what cap space he would free up by walking away would have to be spent on Rodney Stuckey and the increasing salaries. I think you are right, Patrick, keep Prince and Wallace as the veterans to provide some swagger.

  • Aug 11, 201011:47 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    Amazing that you’re making predictions about Daniel Orton being good enough to allow ORL to dump Gortat.  And what’s with the infatuation with Brandon Bass?  I mean, he’s intriguing but I fail to see how Brandon Bass improves the squad more than Pryzbilla (who is 30, not 32).  Pyrzbilla would start for Detroit and Bass would, um…share minutes with Maxiel, Villanueva, Monroe, Wilcox – shall I continue?  I don’t mind a little homerism but I don’t see ORL giving up Gortat and Bass for Tayshaun – pass the kool-aid Laser…it’s not helping your ulcer.

  • Aug 11, 201011:48 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    @ Rake,
    you shouldn’t wish ill will on any player not on Ray Allen, Jason Terry, or Manu…maybe Manu.

  • Aug 12, 20102:14 am
    by gmehl1977

    Reply

    Damn…there goes any hope of landing Darren Collison. I am sure the Pacers will be very happy to have him.

  • Aug 12, 20104:07 am
    by Nelson

    Reply

    I think the best trade that could be made would be Rip for Eddy Curry. Dress Curry in street clothes for the season and cash in on his $11.3million next F.A to re-up Stuck and Jerebko (maybe Summers) and sign DeAndre Jordan, an athletic, young, shotblocking big.
    Or maybe trade for Biedrins, mad rebounder and shotblocker when healthy

  • Aug 12, 20104:33 am
    by James (Australia)

    Reply

    Why do we need an expiring contract to re-up Stuckey and Jerebko? Don’t we hold their bird rights? Unless you are coming from a luxury tax avoiding view…

  • Aug 12, 20105:05 am
    by Nelson

    Reply

    Heard that with lockout, Bird rights will go and so will exceptions

  • Aug 12, 20109:27 am
    by Tony

    Reply

    Looking at the roster, I don’t see a logjam..especially given the rigors of an 82 game season.  I have seen Tmac play recently and if what I saw holds up…he is automatic 15-20pts off the bench that they don’t have RIGHT NOW and NEED.  

  • Aug 12, 20103:25 pm
    by sop

    Reply

    Hamilton & Maxiell to NY for Turiaf, Toney Douglas, and Eddy Curry.

  • Aug 12, 20104:24 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    alan, smart guy, you suggested a sign-and-trade for pryzbilla. both guys are under contract this season, so no sign-and-trade is necessary unless you’re talking about next year (or else it’s just called a “trade”). and the guy turns 32 as soon as the season starts. smart guy.
     
    i’m not infatuated with bass either. but you need salaries to match when two trading teams are at or over the cap, and bass seems like a bad fit in orlando. they pay $24 mil for him to sit on the bench the next three seasons. and i’d gladly take him on to get gortat. and again, just speculating on gortat. they can’t play two centers together very often, and he’s an incredibly expensive backup for a guy who’s going to play 40 minutes. gortat’s getting moved some time soon.
     
    and if you think i’m a homer you’re nuts. read anything i’ve ever said here. i hate this team.

  • Aug 12, 20104:27 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    oh, and tony, if you don’t see a logjam here you should get your head examined. 24 minutes apiece for stuckey, bynum, rip, tay, gordon and t-mac assuming daye, summers and white never play ever. get real. you think it’s not a logjam you should keep that kind of opinion to yourself.

  • Aug 12, 20105:27 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    Not sure that I see Gortat going somewhere soon.  Sure, it’s possible but Howard played big minutes last season, similar mins the one before that, and before that, etc. and ORL resigned & hung onto Gortat through all that.  He’s a pretty good insurance policy and ORL hasn’t shown any reason to blink at the luxury tax. 

    I wouldn’t have a problem with Bass but only if we could ship Max in return.  Both have long contracts and show potential and yet struggle too.

    The Pryz suggestion comes because he is more available than Gortat (IMO).  Pryz contract expires this season, Portland already has Camby, Aldridge is a year older, and they still have decisions to make on Oden.  I also know what you get with Pryz – not much offense but solid rebounding and rim protection and he’s a real banger.  What do we know about Gortat?  Plus, Portland could use a veteran, a wing, and a defensive stopper in the worst way.  I think Portland covets Prince more than Orlando.  Orlando could use Prince but covets a closer more, Vince ain’t getting the job done there.

    Why the Pistons hate? 

  • Aug 12, 20107:28 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    sure. they didn’t want to lose gortat for nothing, and they thought the offer sheet dallas signed him to was fair, but nobody’s going to pay $14 million for 14 minutes (he averaged 13.4 last season) on a long term basis. it doesn’t happen, especially on a middle market team.
     
    it’s easy to justify paying the tax when they consider themselves a contender, but at some point they’re going to have to prioritize. that money is just plain better spent elsewhere. you don’t usually (or ever) pay near-max money for “pretty good insurance.” and if orlando is so set at the center position (howard and gortat are signed long term), why draft orton? why not another three point shooter? easy. because he can be a cheap big body to spell howard for 13 minutes.
     
    personally i think the orlando has about as good a chance as the pistons to win a title this season (read: absolutely no chance), but that trip to the finals two seasons ago (thanks to some very favorable matchups) got them thinking. they decided to go for it. but next year they’ve got a decision. vince carter comes off the books and they have a chance to get under the tax line with a few extra moves. i don’t know what they’ll end up doing, but they’ll be at a crossroads.
     
    the bottom line is that orlando is second in salary and 17th in attendance. and i know just enough about the nba to know that they’re not built to win a championship. they’ll do great in the regular season, but all it takes is one big man like a kendrick perkins or sheed or pau gasol who can guard howard one on one to stop them. they’ll never win like that.
     
    but this window to pay tens of millions of dollars for howard’s backup  won’t last forever. the magic aren’t the yankees. it’s bad business.
     
    i think it’s optimistic to think prince would be enough to fetch gortat, but who knows? i think they pretty much have to move him soon, and i think tayshaun will be one of the best players available. he’s a champion and a proven winner, a playamker, a glue guy. he does a lot of things turkoglu did for them in their heyday. if orlando’s going for it, who knows what they’ll do? teams do crazy things during a playoff run, and this really isn’t that crazy.
     
    right now orlando has pietrus and q richardson to defend the perimeter. both fine options, but is that good enough to match up with miami? they sure don’t provide much of an offensive punch, and they both give up a lot of size to lebron. i don’t know how long you can get away with playing them next to each other. tayshaun would be a welcome addition, and his versatility allows him to play with anybody. it’s just an idea, but i don’t think it’s that crazy.
     
    plus i think prince is just worth a whole lot more with pryzbilla. i know you usually don’t trade away size, but we’re talking about a guy who’ sure to be very much on the decline by the time this team figures to decline. and some contending team with a limited window is probably going to pay him pretty big bucks to make a playoff push. maybe denver or something. we just don’t need an old big man right now. certainly not one who’s going to command eight figures. i’d rather get draft picks or a rookie big or something. maybe someone with upside and question marks like oden if portland were willing to pull the plug on him (a long shot obviously, but you get the idea).
     
    i hate this team because it stinks. all we have are wing players, no point guard, no versatile or dominant big men. we’ve got all the pieces you DON’T start with when building a team. and for all the good dumars did in the first half of the decade, he’s been the league’s worst GM for the past five year solid, transforming one of the league’s best teams with infinite flexibility into one of the worst teams with very little flexibility.
     
    trade rip and we’re looking a little better, no matter what we get in return. trade tayshaun for a SERIOUS BUILDING BLOCK or two, and we’re on our way. refrain from paying stuckey ten million bucks a year (or close to it), and we’re closer still. but there’s a lot of work to do. start making these moves, and i won’t hate the team.

  • Aug 12, 20107:32 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    that paragraph should read:  “i know you usually don’t trade away size, but we’re talking about a guy who’s sure to be very much on the decline by the time this team figures to contend.

  • Aug 12, 201011:30 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    The glory days are over, this team is rebuilding and its tough to watch.  Ideally, you start with some bigs.  This way, you never get pushed around. The Pistons got pushed around all last season and they’re going to get manhandled again this season.  I agree with you, we have built this team outside-in.  We have the finishing pieces first, now we have to go out and get the building blocks.  It’s not the best way to do things but you have to take the pieces when they’re available.
     
    Dumars has always taken the pieces as they come.  He dumped Billups who, despite our missing him, still disappears in the playoffs only for a different team.  When the trade went down, I thought we were getting Boozer later that summer, maybe Joe D did too.  Boozer had been saying all year long that he would opt-out but he didn’t opt-out.  I like Ben Gordon and its a bonus that we steal him from a division rival (can you imagine if Chicago had him still?).  I  think Villanueva’s contract isn’t “that bad” (he’s only 25 and COULD get better).  Of course, I didn’t like the two of them together but then I don’t think highly of carrying large amounts of cap space into the regular season.  Once Boozer didn’t opt-out, there was no turning back – this was the best outcome of a poorly-executed strategy.
     
    The strategy this summer was to get a starting center to push Ben Wallace to the 2nd squad.  Dumars went after Haywood and then bid on Chandler. If we had gotten any one of these guys we don’t get pushed around.  We don’t get manhandled like we’re about to and we would’ve been every bit the #7 or #8 seed any other team is.  It sucks because those were the only two decent bigs available.  Next summer, there’ll be like 10 bigs available (Yao, Horford, Nene, Chandler, Perkins, Marc Gasol, Pryzbilla, Murphy, Randolph, Hayes, Foster, Krstic, etc).  So as much as you and I’d like a center for this season, it’s unlikely we’ll get one.  Instead, Dumars will go out and get us two bigs next summer. That’s right, two.
     
    There was other business to conduct, albeit less important, and Dumars got it done.  We had to re-sign Ben Wallace and Will Bynum too.  He got them both done and I think the contracts are fantastic.  He had to draft a big and, maybe Golden State made it easy on him and, its way too soon to make predictions about Greg Monroe, but the results are favorable.  Tracy McGrady and the Pistons make the strangest of marriages but there’s no reason to pass on him for the vet min, especially because the Bulls did just that.  It stinks that we didn’t use the MLE but the contracts other teams gave out this season were just awful – Joe Johnson, Rudy Gay, Darko, Amir, and how about a round of applause for Travis Outlaw’s agent.  The MLE was USELESS this summer.   Which sucks because this is one of Joe D’s strong points.
     
    So maybe we duplicate the Billups strategy and dump Hamilton for nothing to clear minutes and cap space.  If the right trade comes along I’ll part with Tayshaun, if not, I don’t think he’s worth dumping.  I don’t know where the team stands with Rodney Stuckey and his pending $10m/yr contract but, for all I know, Dumars is ready to pull the trigger on a trade featuring Stuckey.  Trades are where he’s at his best and this is where we need him NOW.  It’s real, real easy to trade a Atkins, picks, and a box of licorice sticks for Rasheed Wallace in his prime – you and I can get this right.  The tough moves are getting Atkins/Wallace for Grant Hill.  Saying soyanara to Stackhouse for Rip Hamilton.
     
    Unfortunately, there are only tough moves ahead for Dumars but I still think he’s the man for the job.
     

  • Aug 13, 20101:09 am
    by Laser

    Reply

    few things:
     
    1) well we agree dumars’s strategy last summer was bad, but you’re stuck thinking inside the box on this one. once you’ve got cap space like we had, you’ve got more options than just signing free agents. i think the smart move would have been to acquire players already under contract with teams looking to clear space. for instance, i’ll take an al harrington off new york’s hands instead of charlie villanueva. al jefferson was just given away. i’d be depressed if i thought about all the players who were surely available from teams looking to clear cap space for the summer of lebron. at the very least i offer david lee the deal we gave gordon and dare new york to match it.
     
    i don’t care if ben gordon was the best available free agent or if cv was the best available big. neither is SO good you don’t take a chance on lee. and if that fails, you just pick up some players from other teams. at the very least, you owe it to rip, gordon and the fans not to force those guys to play together. each one should be playing 35 minutes at SG (and only SG) and being #1 or #2 options.
     
    if you read the pistons spin on things you’d think we only had two options how to spend the money (save it or sign FAs), but i’ve never seen so much talent given away for nothing. this was very much NOT the best outcome. very possibly one of the worst, come to think of it.
     
    2) best not to assume joe will be picking up two bigs next summer. we’ll probably get a similar lottery pick to last year’s, so hopefully we get a piece there. maybe we can sign a big with the MLE,  but i’m just not counting on that.
     
    3) i wouldn’t say the MLE was useless. raymond felton’s agent said he contacted the pistons to gauge their interest (knowing they only had the MLE to spend), but we obviously passed. i would have snatched him up in a second and dealt an SG. perhaps stuckey.
     
    4) i give joe VERY little credit for the wallace and bynum deals. wallace, for one, owed the team one for scorning us for money. as for bynum, he’s loyal to joe for giving him a shot, so i guess there’s that. i give joe ZERO credit for monroe. any GM with a pulse and this roster takes monroe there. the definition of a no-brainer. a complete and total auto-pick. every bit as easy a pick as lebron going first in 2003. anyone who gives dumars credit for that pick can’t possibly have a trace of independent thought in their head. even ed davis’s dad picks monroe in that spot.
     
    5) i’m going ahead and assuming that rip’s getting traded before training camp. but if that doesn’t happen i absolutely HATE the t-mac pickup. this is either an all-time great or THE all-time worst veteran’s minimum signing, hinging entirely on whether or not rip remains a piston. if joe’s looking at this team and thinking he has a great, versatile, dangerous backcourt, this is going to be a major problem; if he moves rip, i think it actually is a potentially great, versatile, dangerous backcourt.
     
    6) stuckey does not have a pending contract. he’ll be a free agent after next year. i was just saying if joe pays stuckey $10 mil i’ll blow my brains out.
     
    7) it always bugs me when people say we got sheed for nothing. you may not know this, but atlanta used the “nothing” pick we sent them to draft josh smith. i don’t know about you, but i’d really like to have a guy like josh smith right about now. so much so that i genuinely question if one championship and some good runs with disappointing finishes was worth it. two championships and you make that deal all day, but one? i’m honestly not so sure.
     
    8) no reason to consider joe the man for the job unless it’s because this is his mess to clean up.

  • Aug 13, 20102:57 pm
    by David

    Reply

    Prince and Hamilton do have extra value to some teams in that they have lots of deep playoff experience.  OKC is one of those teams.  Looking at their roster there are a couple of players that could be helpful to the Pistons – Maynor(23) and/or Ibaka(20!).
    I could see Ben tutoring Ibaka into a similiar type of player (rebounds/blocked shots).  He did block 7 Laker shots in one playoff game, is considered a good athlete and has lots of potential still at his age.  He might be a good replacement for Ben when his new contract expires.
    Maynor is more of a true PG than anybody the Pistons have.  He also has a nice A/TO ratio – like Billups did at Minnesota.  He’s not that great of a shooter, but the Pistons need somebody that can get the ball moving in the offense.
    Both of these players are young and cheap with upside left – and contracts that expire after this year.  I wonder if they’d be available for the right piece.  Hamilton would seem to be an upgrade over Sefolosha.  Prince could be a very good bench veteran.
    If I was OKC, I’d make the Pistons take back another contract (Mo Pete), but his contract expires after this year too.
    What does anybody think?
    I don’t think Portland would let anybody that would help the Pistons go.

  • Aug 13, 20103:28 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    1.) I loves me some cap space, but not at the expense of tanking seasons.  We sent a very good player to Denver in return for some cap space.  If we didn’t use it, we just throw in the towel for the trade season & the last season before either even begins.  Isn’t that what is frustrating you and I right now?  The season hasn’t begun and we have little to be excited about.  
     
    Every Detroiter loves David Lee, he is a Piston through and through.  He’s a nice piece to add to a star and will improve a team.  That said, Golden State way overpaid for him.  He’s paid like THE MAN.  He is NOT the man.  Golden State will rue that contract for years.  Al Jeff to Detroit was never happening.  MIN wanted the #7 pick & Tayshaun.  Would you rather have Al Jeff or Monroe & Tayshaun?  You say so yourself that Tayshaun’s contract is very valuable.  So, it’s more likely Al Jeff vs. Monroe & whatever we get for Tay’s contract.
     
    Knicks were only dealing Al Harrington for an expiring contract.  His value was $10mm and our only expiring contract was Brown ($4mm).  So this was simply not an option.  Last season, WAS had a yard sale and we missed out on Haywood, Butler, & Jamison.  If I understand you correctly, you want our salary/cap space to resemble MIN, right?  I mean, that team is way under the cap but I don’t see how they’re in a better position to take advantage of future yard sales (DEN, ATL, NOH) than we are.  I don’t think we’re in the best position to benefit but we’re also not in the worst.  
     
    2.) We may not sign 2 bigs next summer but we’ll bring in 2 bigs by the end of next summer.  The reason we’re in this mess, IMO, is because Sheed & Dyess left for nothing.  We’ve been getting pushed around ever since.
     
    3.) Felton signed for $8mm per season.  He was never going to turn that down to sign for the MLE.  The MLE was a gun loaded with blanks, we never had a shot.
     
    4.) Agree to disagree on Wallace & Bynum.  Ed Davis’ dad…LOL!
     
    5.)  T-Mac.  Don’t over think this one.  It’s August 10th and T-Mac is rejected by your division rival and willing to sign with you for the vet min.  You do that deal 100 times out of 100.  There are lots of possibilities and the only one that’s negative is paying him his money and telling him to take a hike.  Who’d you want us to sign?  They’ll still be available if we tell T-Mac to go home.
     
    6.)  Rodney Stuckey…what to do, what to do.  I think he’s on a short leash and, if he doesn’t show further progress, I think he’ll be shipped out of town.  If he does show improvement from last season, he’s getting a fat contract and you’re going to be an even unhappier camper (is that possible)?  I’m not sure where I stand on Rodney, I’m stuck on Stuck.
     
    7.) Josh Smith in his prime < Rasheed Wallace in his prime.  I’ll take one championship anytime its available.  I’ll also never turn down one championship in the hand for two in the bush.  Moreover, the 2005 team had every player of the 2004 team plus McDyess.  The failures of the 2005 are on the players/coaches, not the front-office.  
     
    Dumars inherited a terrible team when he took over and faces a terrible team today.  In between, he built a championship team that was incredibly entertaining and fun to root for.  I have every reason to believe he’ll do so again.  

  • Aug 13, 20107:34 pm
    by Laser

    Reply

    alan, i think i like you. i really do. but this discussion can be very frustrating.
     
    1) as for lee, i don’t think that contract is MURDER. he’s overpaid, but i’d rather pay him that kind of money than have rip or gordon on their respective contracts. as for absorbing harrington, i’m not talking about an normal trade here. i’m talking about absorbing existing contracts. we wouldn’t have had to send new york any contracts at all. and speaking of which, minnesota may have wanted tayshaun and #7 for jefferson (a deal so outrageous only minny would ever offer it to someone with a straight face), but when push came to shove they gave him to utah for absolutely nothing. as for “future yard sales,” we had cap space right before the yard sale of the century. it will be a generation before teams are dumping talent like they have been for the last 2 seasons. if joe dumars was the mastermind people give him credit for, he would have picked from the rosters that were giving away talent for nothing. it was a unique opportunity, and he missed it.
     
    2) sheed and dice sure did leave for nothing, didn’t they? we’ve had opportunities to add size, but no deal was ever good enough for joe. until it was too late.
     
    3) who knows what felton would have played for? not you, not me. but his agent DID contact the pistons knowing they had only the MLE to spend, and pistons.com editor keith langlois told me he contacted them last summer when they had cap space too. obviously he’s interested in the team for some reason. i bet plenty of people would like to play here. not top tier free agents, but plenty of people. it’s a good sports city. we’ve got history, championships, tradition. people still respect joe dumars for some reason. don’t assume just because felton ended up with more money somewhere else that he wouldn’t have preferred to be here. safe to say if his agent contacted a team with only the MLE to spend to gauge their interest, we had a shot.
     
    4) agreeing to disagree is fine, but i just don’t know where else ben wallace is going to play. before and after he was in detroit he was a joke. here he was an all-star and revived his career. the man has a LOT of money and a lot of pride. he wants to play the game, and i don’t see him going anywhere else. i like the signing, but i can only give joe so much credit. i gave him partial credit for bynum (though we have no idea what kind of interest anyone had in him. he was never given an offer sheet). but if we keep it up with this crap roster, what’s the point of a few good signings? maybe ben wallace helps monroe’s development, sure. but these two good contracts just don’t do a thing to ease my concerns about every other contract joe gave out in the past few years.
     
    5) believe me, i do the t-mac deal. i just make room on the roster for him to play. move rip for nothing and you’ve upgraded the team instantly. i’d pay part of his salary for him to play somewhere else. i’d take on a bad contract. but if you absolutely can’t move him, you gotta move stuckey or ben gordon. you just gotta. or you’ve hurt the roster by adding t-mac. he’s going to take up precious minutes that could be used for our youth.
     
    here’s a good for-instance. take last season. we won 4/6 to end the season. lose all those games and we have a better shot at the draft pick of choice. potential franchise players. but we won those games. we won NOW (“then”) rather than winning later. and i must add that joe got the gift of a lifetime with monroe. if we had to endure last season for a project big man (davis) or a guy with a low ceiling (aldrich), passing up the best available (aminu), i wouldn’t care enough about this team anymore to even chat in places like this. joe got lucky like only the luckiest people on the planet ever do. but the point was, sure we won more games, but those meaningless games could have cost ourselves the chance to improve. and probably cost us demarcus cousins, so let’s see how he compares to monroe over time. if t-mac is a better contributor than, say, austin daye, we win more games next season. but we aren’t going to make the playoffs anyways (assuming rip is still here), so what’s the point? all we’ll do is stunt daye’s development (and we’ve invested in him) to win a few more games in a losing season. if rip gets moved i’m all about adding t-mac. best move joe could do. but if we go into the season with all six of our veteran G/SFs, this is going to be a long and painful season.
     
    6) thing is, you’re in a lose-lose with stuckey. either he makes the leap forward (as absolutely nothing he’s ever done has indicated) or he doesn’t and he’s more or less at his level (looking like a safe bet). if he makes the leap, you’ve got his rights but you gotta pay him. and you’re still on the hook for $25 million in rip and BG. plus, maybe he just has a good season in his contract year. if he stays in neutral, what can you possibly get for him in trade? maybe a pick. who knows? but joe waited too long on this one, as he tends to do. if he had evaluated stuckey properly, he would have seen the instant plateau he reached and shipped him off before everyone recognized his ceiling. you’re left with a tough decision on him no matter what.
     
    7) i’m just not sold on this championship. it was great, but how long are you willing to pay for it? i don’t have a ring or a banner or a trophy. it’s not written on my resume that i supported the team that year. it’s a nice memory, but that’s all it is. and even if sheed was better in his prime than smith, the hawks have that kid FOREVER. we had about two seasons of “peak sheed.” you can’t compare that kind of rental (and by the end, sheed was a DEADBEAT. for years!) with the rights to an all-star for the duration of his career. and call me crazy, but i might trade the championship for some stability. when’s the last time we had a young big man with a bright future out of the draft? okur? and we let that guy walk for nothing! in part so we could afford sheed! after that championship, if we let sheed walk we could have still had okur.
     
    plenty of places to put blame for 2005. sheed’s a great candidate for leaving horry (a clutch 3 point specialist) wide open behind the arc when the only thing that hurts us is a 3. but there are plenty of places to put blame. dumars and mr. d didn’t bother to get a suitable backup for tayshaun EVER. there’s lots to complain about.
     
    as for dumars, yeah he’s come full circle. great. the mere fact that he’s got the team right where he found it speaks volumes. every comparison between the team today and when he was hired is like a stab in the heart, because there are many parallels. bottom of the conference, not much flexibility, long way to go. elite gms don’t let it get like this. his inability to evaluate talent combined with some very bad contracts single-handedly took us from the top to the bottom in two seasons. not because of budget or a player walking away, but simply based on his actions. he is not an elite gm.

  • Aug 13, 201010:15 pm
    by Alan

    Reply

    Laser, I’ve enjoyed our discussion.  This could go on forever but then it wouldn’t be as much fun.  I’m ready to call it a night on this conversation.  We’ll be chatting in the future.

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