Comments on: Mark Bartelstein, Will Bynum’s agent, still claims client’s contract with Detroit Pistons is worth $10.5 million, despite reports to the contrary http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/ Your Go-To Source For Pistons Coverage Tue, 21 May 2013 15:39:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/comment-page-1/#comment-6598 Laser Tue, 03 Aug 2010 16:08:01 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/#comment-6598 i agree/admit that rip hamilton isn't going to get you anything in trade. it's a very ugly situation we have at shooting guard, and the first step to fixing this mess was when joe didn't extend stuckey's contract. i think joe realizes there's a very good chance he's going to be stuck with all of these shooting guards until rip's contract expires. but until that happens, i don't think rip has any value at all. every drop of value he has is negated by that contract.   so there's really two options with him. trade him now for nothing (assuming that's even possible) or hold on to him for two years and get something in return. both options are bad, and we have joe to thank. "thank joe dumars, kids." "THANKS, JOE." my personal solution is to get rid of rodney stuckey. trade him for a point guard or juicy draft picks or whatever. bynum should be starting anyways, and he can do anything stuckey can do and do it better. the only thing stuckey has going for him is his size, which he never uses effectively (smaller guards usually blow by him) , and his ability to swing over and be an undersized SF (but we've got plenty of SFs).   right now i have run out of faith that joe can even flip rip into anything at all, so i'd advocate dumping him altogether. then there's a chance we'll be able to see this team start to take shape, the games will be more competitive, more watchable. we won't be forced to watch ridiculous rotations and small ball. i'm just not willing to wait two years to see what rip may or may not bring us. if the answer turns out to be "not much," i'll snap.   also, if dumping rip would give us cap space, obviously you do that move in a heartbeat. it won't. we're well over the cap, so we'd have to dump a bunch of extra salary to have cap space. i agree/admit that rip hamilton isn’t going to get you anything in trade. it’s a very ugly situation we have at shooting guard, and the first step to fixing this mess was when joe didn’t extend stuckey’s contract. i think joe realizes there’s a very good chance he’s going to be stuck with all of these shooting guards until rip’s contract expires. but until that happens, i don’t think rip has any value at all. every drop of value he has is negated by that contract.
 
so there’s really two options with him. trade him now for nothing (assuming that’s even possible) or hold on to him for two years and get something in return. both options are bad, and we have joe to thank. “thank joe dumars, kids.” “THANKS, JOE.” my personal solution is to get rid of rodney stuckey. trade him for a point guard or juicy draft picks or whatever. bynum should be starting anyways, and he can do anything stuckey can do and do it better. the only thing stuckey has going for him is his size, which he never uses effectively (smaller guards usually blow by him) , and his ability to swing over and be an undersized SF (but we’ve got plenty of SFs).
 
right now i have run out of faith that joe can even flip rip into anything at all, so i’d advocate dumping him altogether. then there’s a chance we’ll be able to see this team start to take shape, the games will be more competitive, more watchable. we won’t be forced to watch ridiculous rotations and small ball. i’m just not willing to wait two years to see what rip may or may not bring us. if the answer turns out to be “not much,” i’ll snap.
 
also, if dumping rip would give us cap space, obviously you do that move in a heartbeat. it won’t. we’re well over the cap, so we’d have to dump a bunch of extra salary to have cap space.

]]> By: nuetes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/comment-page-1/#comment-6590 nuetes Tue, 03 Aug 2010 02:23:12 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/#comment-6590 how do you move Rip's contract? that is the question. i'm sure it can be moved for something equally bad in return, but can it be moved for something better, or even just moved period? i agree that it would make no difference whether rip is on the team or not. if he's not then gordon takes his minutes and you aren't losing much. they'd have about $15 mil or so in cap space at the end of the season to spend if they moved rip for an expiring, not suffer any significant drawbacks, and move forward with some flexibility. But can it be done? And is Dumars even trying to do something like that? Those are huge questions with no answers. I'm all for moving Rip, not so much for moving Prince. Daye/Jerebko aren't remotely on Tay's level, and Tay isn't even on that high of a level. That's what I'm talking about by saying taking a step back to move forward. Moving Prince downgrades one position to potentially improve another. It makes it a wash. Moving Rip clears cap and doesn't significantly downgrade a position. It's pretty much the move that has to be made. how do you move Rip’s contract? that is the question. i’m sure it can be moved for something equally bad in return, but can it be moved for something better, or even just moved period? i agree that it would make no difference whether rip is on the team or not. if he’s not then gordon takes his minutes and you aren’t losing much. they’d have about $15 mil or so in cap space at the end of the season to spend if they moved rip for an expiring, not suffer any significant drawbacks, and move forward with some flexibility. But can it be done? And is Dumars even trying to do something like that? Those are huge questions with no answers.
I’m all for moving Rip, not so much for moving Prince. Daye/Jerebko aren’t remotely on Tay’s level, and Tay isn’t even on that high of a level. That’s what I’m talking about by saying taking a step back to move forward. Moving Prince downgrades one position to potentially improve another. It makes it a wash. Moving Rip clears cap and doesn’t significantly downgrade a position. It’s pretty much the move that has to be made.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/comment-page-1/#comment-6587 Laser Tue, 03 Aug 2010 02:05:52 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/#comment-6587 meant to say when rip's contract is expiring and, thus, has value. meant to say when rip’s contract is expiring and, thus, has value.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/comment-page-1/#comment-6584 Laser Tue, 03 Aug 2010 01:49:08 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/#comment-6584 oh yeah, who would pay a big, strong center with good defense and rebounding and respectable scoring ability $55 million over five years?? that's the kind of contract i reserve for undersized shooting guards to come off the bench and play under 20 minutes. i swear to god i don't know how some people dress themselves in the morning.   and to nuetes: i don't think there's a "quick" fix, but i'd like to see people look at this situation realistically. so many people have rose colored glasses and they're letting joe off the hook. as for taking a step back in order to move forward, there are no steps back. we are at the bottom of the league. it does not get much worse. this team is an awful mess, and i want it to get fixed. i want joe to do ANYTHING right about now.   problem is this: do you get rid of talent in order to move forward or do you wallow in the doldrums for a few more seasons and move rip when his contract has value and, thus, has value to someone? they're both losing propositions, but given the moves joe's made recently, i've got no faith he'll ever turn rip into anything worthwhile in the first place, so i favor cutting him loose, throwing the fans a bone and allowing the team to play good basketball and move forward.   any pistons fan who isn't mad at dumars hasn't been paying attention. oh yeah, who would pay a big, strong center with good defense and rebounding and respectable scoring ability $55 million over five years?? that’s the kind of contract i reserve for undersized shooting guards to come off the bench and play under 20 minutes. i swear to god i don’t know how some people dress themselves in the morning.
 
and to nuetes: i don’t think there’s a “quick” fix, but i’d like to see people look at this situation realistically. so many people have rose colored glasses and they’re letting joe off the hook. as for taking a step back in order to move forward, there are no steps back. we are at the bottom of the league. it does not get much worse. this team is an awful mess, and i want it to get fixed. i want joe to do ANYTHING right about now.
 
problem is this: do you get rid of talent in order to move forward or do you wallow in the doldrums for a few more seasons and move rip when his contract has value and, thus, has value to someone? they’re both losing propositions, but given the moves joe’s made recently, i’ve got no faith he’ll ever turn rip into anything worthwhile in the first place, so i favor cutting him loose, throwing the fans a bone and allowing the team to play good basketball and move forward.
 
any pistons fan who isn’t mad at dumars hasn’t been paying attention.

]]> By: nuetes http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/comment-page-1/#comment-6560 nuetes Mon, 02 Aug 2010 22:07:34 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/#comment-6560 laser - so what do you propose? i don't think anybody is saying that it isn't a problem, but your acting like there is some quick fix or something. the only option from a fans point of view right now, as in someone that isn't on the inside and knows the options, is to just deal with it. make the best of it. dumars is trying to win now and unless a trade benefits that goal it's probably not getting made. i don't think the thought of taking a step back to take two steps forward even enters his mind. i know what i would do - i'd blow the whole thing up, but i can't get mad at dumars for taking the opposite stance. neither direction is necessarily a good direction. so i'll just wait and see.   laser – so what do you propose? i don’t think anybody is saying that it isn’t a problem, but your acting like there is some quick fix or something. the only option from a fans point of view right now, as in someone that isn’t on the inside and knows the options, is to just deal with it. make the best of it.
dumars is trying to win now and unless a trade benefits that goal it’s probably not getting made. i don’t think the thought of taking a step back to take two steps forward even enters his mind. i know what i would do – i’d blow the whole thing up, but i can’t get mad at dumars for taking the opposite stance. neither direction is necessarily a good direction. so i’ll just wait and see.
 

]]> By: greenspan3000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/comment-page-1/#comment-6557 greenspan3000 Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:44:00 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/#comment-6557 I know this might be far fetched but hypothetically, what if some players get injured (hopefully not) and then the excess of perimeter players will be able to get their minutes.  The fact that last year the team was so decimated by injuries, that Atkins was at pg and Daye was taking the majority of minutes at sg, shows you how quickly depth can disappear. About Rip, players like Joe Johnson and Rudy Gaye got ridiculous money.  Teams still have cap space and will be interested in a shooting guard that can score 18 a game, and is a veteran with winning experience.  The Celtics come close to fulfilling the criteria of three $10million plus players that play only 30 mpg, with the way they need to rest their veterans during the regular season. Also, doesn't seem like the Pistons interests got especially ruined by the Dallas Mavericks owner handing out huge contracts.  I really wanted Brendan Haywood, but 5yr/$55m is really overpaying.  On top of that, they got Tyson Chandler another quality starting center, along with a couple back ups. I know this might be far fetched but hypothetically, what if some players get injured (hopefully not) and then the excess of perimeter players will be able to get their minutes.  The fact that last year the team was so decimated by injuries, that Atkins was at pg and Daye was taking the majority of minutes at sg, shows you how quickly depth can disappear.
About Rip, players like Joe Johnson and Rudy Gaye got ridiculous money.  Teams still have cap space and will be interested in a shooting guard that can score 18 a game, and is a veteran with winning experience.  The Celtics come close to fulfilling the criteria of three $10million plus players that play only 30 mpg, with the way they need to rest their veterans during the regular season.
Also, doesn’t seem like the Pistons interests got especially ruined by the Dallas Mavericks owner handing out huge contracts.  I really wanted Brendan Haywood, but 5yr/$55m is really overpaying.  On top of that, they got Tyson Chandler another quality starting center, along with a couple back ups.

]]> By: Laser http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/comment-page-1/#comment-6550 Laser Mon, 02 Aug 2010 19:00:20 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/#comment-6550 feldman, if you want to see the problem with too many good perimeter players who make a lot of money, stay tuned this season.   for a quick preview: there are so many shots and minutes to go around. rip and gordon are rhythm shooters, and both work better as a first or second option with a point guard setting them up. stuckey dominates the ball and is a below average passer and decision maker. there aren't many good combinations for these three to play together, and there just plain aren't enough minutes. ben gordon averaged like 26 last season, and that includes the time when rip was out. when rip was healthy gordon got like 19 minutes and 8 shots a game. plus there aren't enough minutes at the guard position for these guys, never mind the minutes will bynum will need. so you're forced to play all of these guys out of position in some combination or another. the young guys will get no minutes, and the team won't even be better off for it. you'll see.   also, let's forget about winning titles and take that out of the conversation. how about we settle for a respectable brand of basketball that makes sense? is that too much to ask for as a starting point? this team was excruciating last season, and i don't get the impression anybody learned anything, chalking it up to injuries when some of the toughest, most competitive basketball they played was with significant injuries. feldman, if you want to see the problem with too many good perimeter players who make a lot of money, stay tuned this season.
 
for a quick preview: there are so many shots and minutes to go around. rip and gordon are rhythm shooters, and both work better as a first or second option with a point guard setting them up. stuckey dominates the ball and is a below average passer and decision maker. there aren’t many good combinations for these three to play together, and there just plain aren’t enough minutes. ben gordon averaged like 26 last season, and that includes the time when rip was out. when rip was healthy gordon got like 19 minutes and 8 shots a game. plus there aren’t enough minutes at the guard position for these guys, never mind the minutes will bynum will need. so you’re forced to play all of these guys out of position in some combination or another. the young guys will get no minutes, and the team won’t even be better off for it. you’ll see.
 
also, let’s forget about winning titles and take that out of the conversation. how about we settle for a respectable brand of basketball that makes sense? is that too much to ask for as a starting point? this team was excruciating last season, and i don’t get the impression anybody learned anything, chalking it up to injuries when some of the toughest, most competitive basketball they played was with significant injuries.

]]> By: Dan Feldman http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/comment-page-1/#comment-6504 Dan Feldman Mon, 02 Aug 2010 08:49:28 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/#comment-6504 <p>Laser, what is the huge problem with having too many pretty good perimeter players who make a lot of money? What is that keeping the Pistons from accomplishing? They're not going to be title contenders this year anyway. Each of those players has value -- even if it's not maximized together. In due time, at least one will be trade for a player who fits better. They're no sense in just dumping one, because it won't get the Pistons to a title any sooner.</p> Laser, what is the huge problem with having too many pretty good perimeter players who make a lot of money? What is that keeping the Pistons from accomplishing? They’re not going to be title contenders this year anyway. Each of those players has value — even if it’s not maximized together. In due time, at least one will be trade for a player who fits better. They’re no sense in just dumping one, because it won’t get the Pistons to a title any sooner.

]]> By: Dan Feldman http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/comment-page-1/#comment-6503 Dan Feldman Mon, 02 Aug 2010 08:45:16 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/#comment-6503 <p>I think Maxiell has a greater than 0 percent chance of starting. But I think Jerebko is much, much more likely to start over him. Jerebko is always active, and Maxiell drifts at times. I think John Kuester will prefer the former.</p> <p>Plus, with Maxiell's size, he's better suited to play against backups.</p> <p>I'd say the most likely way Maxiell starts is if the Pistons routinely quick sub with Villanueva.</p> I think Maxiell has a greater than 0 percent chance of starting. But I think Jerebko is much, much more likely to start over him. Jerebko is always active, and Maxiell drifts at times. I think John Kuester will prefer the former.

Plus, with Maxiell’s size, he’s better suited to play against backups.

I’d say the most likely way Maxiell starts is if the Pistons routinely quick sub with Villanueva.

]]> By: Dan Feldman http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/comment-page-1/#comment-6502 Dan Feldman Mon, 02 Aug 2010 08:40:47 +0000 http://www.pistonpowered.com/2010/07/mark-bartelstein-will-bynums-agent-still-claims-clients-contract-with-detroit-pistons-is-worth-10-5-million-despite-reports-to-the-contrary/#comment-6502 <p>BRGulker, I'm not blaming the reporters -- at least not mostly. But I think it's important to report accurate information. Mostly, I'm looking to see whether Mark Barelstein or "Pistons sources" is more reliable. That's definitely something that could be relevant in the future, even the $750,000 here won't be.</p> BRGulker, I’m not blaming the reporters — at least not mostly. But I think it’s important to report accurate information. Mostly, I’m looking to see whether Mark Barelstein or “Pistons sources” is more reliable. That’s definitely something that could be relevant in the future, even the $750,000 here won’t be.

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